News & Discussion: O-Bahn

[rev]

A friend who used to work at their Noarlunga site informed that they are closing there.

Noarlunga (ATO contract) is closing, Modbury (APO contract) isn't, unless news about Modbury isn't out yet

Datacom lost the Centrelink contracta few months ago, and that was something like 2/3 of the workforce on site compared to the smaller Home Affairs contract at Modbury, and the even smaller again contingent of Datacom Systems people (who may have already moved elsewhere? Not sure, had zero contact with them and Home Affairs when I was there), and the 5 or so people still doing ADHA.

I also just learned the company lost the ATO contract, and everyone I knew who hadn't already been made redundant just got the chop.

Why'd they lose the contracts? They seemed to be a big provider of these outsourced services to the federal government.
From what friends who worked at Datacom have said, they were paid shit (sub $60k when other call centre jobs pay low to mid $60k) and the work culture/environment wasn't pleasant at all. Would imagine it's hard to attract quality staff and keep people motivated to meet KPI's under those conditions.
I think last year some of the banks also cut back hundreds of call centre staff as well.

[ChillyPhilly]

Noarlunga (ATO contract) is closing, Modbury (APO contract) isn't, unless news about Modbury isn't out yet

Datacom lost the Centrelink contracta few months ago, and that was something like 2/3 of the workforce on site compared to the smaller Home Affairs contract at Modbury, and the even smaller again contingent of Datacom Systems people (who may have already moved elsewhere? Not sure, had zero contact with them and Home Affairs when I was there), and the 5 or so people still doing ADHA.

I also just learned the company lost the ATO contract, and everyone I knew who hadn't already been made redundant just got the chop.

Why'd they lose the contracts? They seemed to be a big provider of these outsourced services to the federal government.
From what friends who worked at Datacom have said, they were paid shit (sub $60k when other call centre jobs pay low to mid $60k) and the work culture/environment wasn't pleasant at all. Would imagine it's hard to attract quality staff and keep people motivated to meet KPI's under those conditions.
I think last year some of the banks also cut back hundreds of call centre staff as well.

Probably also less work, with Covid restrictions done with, employment opportunities have increased.

[Nort]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

[claybro]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

This has been trialed in Germany and I believe there is an operational example of this somewhere, although I don't recall now where. Suffice to say, if it was a successful format-it would be rolled out elsewhere, but like the existing O bahn, seems only used in fairly limited setting worldwide. The tracked bus system has never really taken off, given the uptake of light rail/ trams worldwide in recent years. As for the idea of elevated anything in the Western suburbs of Adelaide///you are correct...it is a brain fart. Most likely would be a light rail/ tram using Richmond Road and rear of airport for access. At the very least-it might lead to some gentrification of Richmond Road.

[SRW]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

I know there was some advocacy for a 'Southern O-Bahn' in the 90s, but I'm not sure if the studies were all that detailed.

[rubberman]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

The raised guiding tracks are for guiding those little wheels on the sides of the bus which are linked to the steering. They also act as a means of keeping the bus from falling off bridges if the little wheels fail.

If the bus runs to the airport, then the raised portions are not needed. The bus could use optical guidance to achieve steering.

What you are describing is the so-called "trackless tram". Or maybe the trackless tram people should be called out for not calling their vehicles O-Bahn buses.

[Nort]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

The raised guiding tracks are for guiding those little wheels on the sides of the bus which are linked to the steering. They also act as a means of keeping the bus from falling off bridges if the little wheels fail.

If the bus runs to the airport, then the raised portions are not needed. The bus could use optical guidance to achieve steering.

What you are describing is the so-called "trackless tram". Or maybe the trackless tram people should be called out for not calling their vehicles O-Bahn buses.

I was more thinking about it as being a relatively low cost way to add new dedicated/uninterrupted routes and thinking about the technical viability.

[cocoiadrop]

Random brain fart. Is anyone aware if any studies ever having been done into how O-Bahn style infrastructure could be used in other ways?

For example could you make something that straddles the line between bus, tram, and monorail using raised O-Bahn guiding tracks? Richmond Road could have one above it running down to the airport. Would also allow cheaper options for cutting through the parkland in a less impactful way than a road, and cheaper than a tunnel. Perhaps it would make an O-Bahn to Mount Barker feasible.

A ton of obvious negatives, but it seems to provide enough options that it must have been studied in some way at one point or another.

The raised guiding tracks are for guiding those little wheels on the sides of the bus which are linked to the steering. They also act as a means of keeping the bus from falling off bridges if the little wheels fail.

If the bus runs to the airport, then the raised portions are not needed. The bus could use optical guidance to achieve steering.

What you are describing is the so-called "trackless tram". Or maybe the trackless tram people should be called out for not calling their vehicles O-Bahn buses.

I was more thinking about it as being a relatively low cost way to add new dedicated/uninterrupted routes and thinking about the technical viability.

We've got priority traffic light cycles and bus lanes for that at an even lower cost.

[whatstheirnamesmom]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 42bcc63c98

July 16, 2023

Revealed: Dozens of defects discovered along Adelaide’s O-Bahn bus network, FOI inspection reports reveal

Dozens of defects have been discovered along one of the state’s most popular public transport networks, according to official safety audits.

Transport Department inspection reports, released under Freedom of Information laws, revealed almost 50 flaws with the 12km O-Bahn busway in Adelaide’s northeast.

While the Opposition urged more works to fix the failures, authorities said “low-level” problems posed no passenger risks.

The state government is doubling maintenance spending to $120,000 this year.

During five separate checks last year, inspectors found cracks or damage to kerbs, constructions joints and guide rails, crumbling tracks, broken concrete sleepers, poor drainage, failed repairs, as well as rusted bolts.

Internal reports, filed after checks conducted between May and November, concluded it “desirable” to fix the flaws. None were deemed necessary or urgent.

A track “dip” between Paradise and Modbury interchanges should be “monitored”.

Downer Group inspections also found cracked kerbs and other spalling – deterioration of steel reinforced concrete – “at many locations” around the Modbury Interchange at Tea Tree Plaza.

The Klemzig interchange’s median strip is also separating, logs show.

Both interchanges should be monitored, the safety audits concluded.

Official figures show more than 32,000 passengers catch 192 Adelaide Metro buses each day across 47 routes.

A Transport Department spokeswoman said routine checks are conducted three times every 12 months during maintenance closures while “detailed” inspections occurred every four years. Another check is due next month.

“O-Bahn inspections … noted various minor issues, consistent with historical usage and the nature of the soil along the River Torrens,” she said.

The German-inspired transport system, which opened in March 1986, cost at least $97m to build – worth more than $265m today – after several controversies to build the pioneering track – the only one of its type outside Germany at the time – from Park Tce, Gilberton to Tea Tree Plaza.

There were also union disputes, land-acquisition rows, resident protests and even claims construction was disturbing Aboriginal grave sites although the late Duke of Edinburgh gave it the royal seal of approval in May 1986.

More than 30 new bridges were required on the O-Bahn – short for omnibus-Bahn, which is German for rail – as travel times were slashed by almost half.

A state-of-the-art Mercedes Benz bus fleet with special electronic guidance systems, which could reach speeds of up to 100km/h, were first used on the network then hailed as being an innovative combination of bus and rail technology.

Labor in 2017 built a $160m tunnel, which stretches 670m under the parklands while the Liberal administration in 2020 ruled out a more than $250m extension to Golden Grove.

Both parties have expanded various “park ‘n’ rides”.

A UniSA paper found that it was the world’s longest operational guided busway until 2011, taking passengers 15km from Tea Tree Plaza, via Paradise and Klemzig – roughly following the River Torrens – to the CBD in less than 20 minutes.

There have also numerous mishaps of cars entering the track.

Opposition transport spokesman Vincent Tarzia, whose electorate covers parts of the network, said “little problems can become big … quickly”.

“The O-Bahn is one of South Australia’s greatest infrastructure builds and a transformational public transport option,” he said.

“But it’s clear there are urgent works that must be prioritised to ensure it remains operational and efficient.”

He accused Transport Minister Tom Koutsantonis of being responsible for a “shocking $3 billion backlog of road and infrastructure maintenance”.

He said: “With his track record, and very little money in the budget, we have huge concerns if not addressed the O-Bahn could descend to point of rack and ruin.

“At that stage, little money for easy fixes will morph into big money and complicated delays that could see the O-Bahn put out of service.”

But Mr Koutsantonis accused Mr Tarzia of hysteria.

“The O-Bahn track is regularly inspected and the issues he is complaining about are minor matters which were there over the Liberals’ time in government,” he said in a statement.

“They did nothing about them then and now he’s complaining that someone else should.

“Fortunately for my young friend Mr Tarzia and his ‘can’t someone else do it’ mantra, the Labor Government has doubled the O-Bahn maintenance budget for the current financial year.”

He said the former Liberal government outsourced road maintenance that resulted in the backlog blowing out from $750 million to $1.96 billion.

“It was Labor that last invested in our O-Bahn infrastructure with the line’s extension to the CBD and we will continue to ensure the 32,000 passengers who use the line every day are well served.

“South Australians deserve better than an Opposition Transport spokesman who continues to attempt to erode public confidence with wild claims about the state of the network.”

[SBD]

The story seems to be "routine inspections found minor faults that can be fixed by routine maintenance".

What's with Mr Koutsantonis' "... my young friend Mr Tarzia..."? Vincent Tarzia is more than a year older than Peter Malinauskas was when he first became the Minister for Police, Emergency and Correctional Services in 2016, but not quite as old as Koutsantonis was in his first ministry in 2009 after a dozen years on the back bench.

He's only 51 himself, but seems to enjoy pointing out youth (if the second half of his 30s is youth) as a proxy for inexperience or naivety.

[rubberman]

The story seems to be "routine inspections found minor faults that can be fixed by routine maintenance".

What's with Mr Koutsantonis' "... my young friend Mr Tarzia..."? Vincent Tarzia is more than a year older than Peter Malinauskas was when he first became the Minister for Police, Emergency and Correctional Services in 2016, but not quite as old as Koutsantonis was in his first ministry in 2009 after a dozen years on the back bench.

He's only 51 himself, but seems to enjoy pointing out youth (if the second half of his 30s is youth) as a proxy for inexperience or naivety.

Kout is just needling Tarzia. They all do it in Parliaments everwhere. It's a very long standing tradition.

As for maintenance, the O-Bahn is coming up for 40 years in age. For many concrete structures, that's around the time to be needing major maintenance. The O-Bahn has a lot of minor issues, but it also has enough deterioration that its speed is now a lot lower than originally. So, Kout is right in the sense that it's still safe, but he's also wrong in that the safety is bought via a big reduction in performance. In addition, the guide wheels are now an old technology. Most modern guideways use optical or magnetic strips. (For example, the so called "trackless tram", lol is really just a recycled form of an O-Bahn bus, but modernised).

[SBD]

The story seems to be "routine inspections found minor faults that can be fixed by routine maintenance".

What's with Mr Koutsantonis' "... my young friend Mr Tarzia..."? Vincent Tarzia is more than a year older than Peter Malinauskas was when he first became the Minister for Police, Emergency and Correctional Services in 2016, but not quite as old as Koutsantonis was in his first ministry in 2009 after a dozen years on the back bench.

He's only 51 himself, but seems to enjoy pointing out youth (if the second half of his 30s is youth) as a proxy for inexperience or naivety.

Kout is just needling Tarzia. They all do it in Parliaments everwhere. It's a very long standing tradition.

As for maintenance, the O-Bahn is coming up for 40 years in age. For many concrete structures, that's around the time to be needing major maintenance. The O-Bahn has a lot of minor issues, but it also has enough deterioration that its speed is now a lot lower than originally. So, Kout is right in the sense that it's still safe, but he's also wrong in that the safety is bought via a big reduction in performance. In addition, the guide wheels are now an old technology. Most modern guideways use optical or magnetic strips. (For example, the so called "trackless tram", lol is really just a recycled form of an O-Bahn bus, but modernised).

"Just needling" could also be bullying, and should be called out for what it is.

The Swanport Bridge is a prestressed concrete bridge, 44 years since it opened, Most other bridges over and under the South Eastern Freeway would be a little older. Hopefully the DIT is monitoring all of its major concrete infrastructure, and requesting sufficient budget to restore or replace them when necessary.

If the O-Bahn heavy maintenance gets to needing essentially a complete rebuild of the track, it would certainly be worth looking at what current technology would best allow it to return to 100km/h or higher running.

[claybro]

The O-Bahn concrete track has reached its original expected lifespan by its German engineers, and a complete replacement will be required, less the safety, speed and performance is continually eroded. Failure of a concrete kerb causing derailment would obviously be catastrophic, and just patching the existing concrete guides is not a long term solution. These are flimsy framed buses-travelling at high speed, in close proximity...I would hope they are not wanting to treat it like some kind of arterial road pothole program. Quips by the premier- or anyone regarding this is somewhat irresponsible. Suffice to say- at replacement time, all options including heavy and light rail should be considered. Heavy rail is probably out unless an underground CBD loop is part of the equation, as at least buses and light rail can enter the CBD proper.

[rubberman]

The story seems to be "routine inspections found minor faults that can be fixed by routine maintenance".

What's with Mr Koutsantonis' "... my young friend Mr Tarzia..."? Vincent Tarzia is more than a year older than Peter Malinauskas was when he first became the Minister for Police, Emergency and Correctional Services in 2016, but not quite as old as Koutsantonis was in his first ministry in 2009 after a dozen years on the back bench.

He's only 51 himself, but seems to enjoy pointing out youth (if the second half of his 30s is youth) as a proxy for inexperience or naivety.

Kout is just needling Tarzia. They all do it in Parliaments everwhere. It's a very long standing tradition.

As for maintenance, the O-Bahn is coming up for 40 years in age. For many concrete structures, that's around the time to be needing major maintenance. The O-Bahn has a lot of minor issues, but it also has enough deterioration that its speed is now a lot lower than originally. So, Kout is right in the sense that it's still safe, but he's also wrong in that the safety is bought via a big reduction in performance. In addition, the guide wheels are now an old technology. Most modern guideways use optical or magnetic strips. (For example, the so called "trackless tram", lol is really just a recycled form of an O-Bahn bus, but modernised).

"Just needling" could also be bullying, and should be called out for what it is.

The Swanport Bridge is a prestressed concrete bridge, 44 years since it opened, Most other bridges over and under the South Eastern Freeway would be a little older. Hopefully the DIT is monitoring all of its major concrete infrastructure, and requesting sufficient budget to restore or replace them when necessary.

If the O-Bahn heavy maintenance gets to needing essentially a complete rebuild of the track, it would certainly be worth looking at what current technology would best allow it to return to 100km/h or higher running.

Well then, you'd have to eject the likes of Churchill, Keating, Pitt, Lady Astor, Morrison, Howard.

[AG]

40-50 years would be the expected lifespan of the O-Bahn concrete track. Perhaps consideration could be taken to undertaking a 3-stage closure (Medindie to Klemzig, Klemzig to Paradise, Paradise to Tea Tree Plaza) to allow for full replacement of the track and upgrades/repairs of any other infrastructure (e.g. bridges, drainage, balustrades), starting from the city end and working towards Tea Tree Plaza. That would allow the O-Bahn to continue operating in sections while overhaul/replacement works are carried out.