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I'd much rather money spent on more and more car subsidising parking spaces put into improving the feeder bus service instead. It's good during AM/PM peak but during the day and on weekends theres plenty of room for improvement.

cocoiadrop wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:52 am

I'd much rather money spent on more and more car subsidising parking spaces put into improving the feeder bus service instead. It's good during AM/PM peak but during the day and on weekends theres plenty of room for improvement.

The 541G provides east-west connection. A new east-west route from Wynn Vale to Fairview Park via Grenfell Road would provide a good direct connection.

On weekends it could be a mix of the 545 and 543 (number it 547 or 549)

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:31 pm

Zills wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:21 pm

No it shouldn't. Obahn carries more people per day than heavy rail can at full capacity.

Not even remotely true.

Absolutely true. Adelaide metro used to publish the statistics but they're gone from the website. Only data I can find shows 31000 trips per day on the obahn versus upgraded gawler line achieving only 10500 per day.

Zills wrote:

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:31 pm

Zills wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:21 pm

No it shouldn't. Obahn carries more people per day than heavy rail can at full capacity.

Not even remotely true.

Absolutely true. Adelaide metro used to publish the statistics but they're gone from the website. Only data I can find shows 31000 trips per day on the obahn versus upgraded gawler line achieving only 10500 per day.

This is patronage figure, not a capacity figure.

Hypothetically, if the Gawler line was better optimised for higher speeds and services, the capacity would be significantly higher than it is even now.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:14 am

Zills wrote:

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:31 pm

Not even remotely true.

Absolutely true. Adelaide metro used to publish the statistics but they're gone from the website. Only data I can find shows 31000 trips per day on the obahn versus upgraded gawler line achieving only 10500 per day.

This is patronage figure, not a capacity figure.

Hypothetically, if the Gawler line was better optimised for higher speeds and services, the capacity would be significantly higher than it is even now.

Ok so do you know what that maximum capacity would be for the gawler line? The obahn can carry max 49000 per day with articulated buses. I'm genuinely interested as I can't find the data. Some years ago I did my thesis on the obahn and my research indicated the obahn is the winner in all departments.. unfortunately I no longer have access to it!

This debate recurs every few years on this forum but if you're interested I think the most illuminating was in 2017:
viewtopic.php?t=2247&start=855#p153997

My takeaway was basically that there's no compelling reason to replace O-Bahn outside track degradation and/or significant system integration benefits. On questions of capacity, it seems light rail and O-Bahn are equivalent with buses having an advantage in headway and one seat journeys. Heavy rail would have higher capacity but its implementation would be neither necessary or feasible on current pax and in this corridor.

IMO the debate is beside the point. I would rather see the limited funds public transport receives go toward expanding/enhancing the network than swapping modes for an already successful part of it. Give me a Norwood or North Adelaide tram instead, and just maintain the O-Bahn track and electrify its bus fleet.

Heavy rail capacity is much higher than the O'Bahn a six carriage train is over 1000 people while a artic bus is 80. That's a possible 30,000 people an hour, the O'Bahn can in theory run buses every 20 seconds but that's not happening, it's still only 14,000 people.

RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2023 12:33 am

Is there any way to improve the O-Bahn that doesn't involve turning it into a heavy rail?

Sure, light rail with enough units to keep the frequency up, and make all the park and rides house a bus interchange as well.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:42 am

Hybrid trolleybus/battery have been run for a while in Europe. They would be perfect for the O-Bahn. Use the O-Bahn track for overhead wire operations and run without wires into the CBD and where the buses head off the O-Bahn into suburbia.

Why would you want trolleybuses? They have twice as many visually intrusive wires as trams!
It would be far better to fourth rail electrify it: as well as looking better, this would give it a greater current capacity so the buses could recharge their batteries more quickly.

Is technology not at the point yet where the track itself has overhead wires, to charge an on board battery while on the track, to allow enough charge for the entire route?

claybro wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:59 pm

Is technology not at the point yet where the track itself has overhead wires, to charge an on board battery while on the track, to allow enough charge for the entire route?

It is, but didn’t you understand my post? Why would you want to go with overhead wires when fourth rail electrification would be technically superior, much less visually intrusive, and probably significantly cheaper?

The O-Bahn is a quick route for buses to take, electrifying it seems to add an extra level of complication without really solving any problems.

Sorta on this subject, the bus I took home yesterday was one of the hydrogen fuel cell buses being trialed, amazing quiet and had astonishing acceleration.

Nort wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:56 am

The O-Bahn is a quick route for buses to take, electrifying it seems to add an extra level of complication without really solving any problems.

Do you think electrifying the Seaford line added an extra level of complication without really solving any problems? If not, what’s the difference?

Electrifying the O-Bahn gets rid of emissions from buses, reduces operating costs, and improves performance (particularly on uphill sections). But perhaps more importantly, it will make the buses themselves cheaper! This is because the batteries make up a high proportion of the cost of an electric bus. By enabling the buses to charge up on the move, electrifying the O-Bahn would greatly reduce battery capacity requirements.

Aidan wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:23 pm

Nort wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:56 am

The O-Bahn is a quick route for buses to take, electrifying it seems to add an extra level of complication without really solving any problems.

Do you think electrifying the Seaford line added an extra level of complication without really solving any problems? If not, what’s the difference?

Electrifying the O-Bahn gets rid of emissions from buses, reduces operating costs, and improves performance (particularly on uphill sections). But perhaps more importantly, it will make the buses themselves cheaper! This is because the batteries make up a high proportion of the cost of an electric bus. By enabling the buses to charge up on the move, electrifying the O-Bahn would greatly reduce battery capacity requirements.

They all be hydrogen soon so why bother?

mattblack wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:08 pm

They all be hydrogen soon so why bother?

Using batteries is more efficient than converting the electricity to hydrogen and back.