The Krispy Kreme / On The Run thread

[Nathan]

Or could it be that Peregrine have created a clearly branded, consistent, well maintained and well marketed set up. I guess my round about point being we are so quick to diss a large local successful corporation, whilst simultaneously managing to feel sorry for the poorly run business model of the small local, AND at the same time not supporting them. Smacks of tall poppy syndrome to me.

I wouldn't say "clearly branded" or "well marketed" (both are all over the shop). Even "well maintained" is a stretch. Their success is through shear ubiquity.

[Patrick_27]

The reason no one goes to GG is because where are they? Have they opened stores near me in easy to find and access locations? As far as I know they have a store in CX only. Only after feeling pressure from krispy kreme have they decided to open more stores, so krispy kreme is the driver for growing the economy of SA. So good for SA they can even cause external companies to invest in SA also.

Do they bring new money to South Australia via borrowing from banks, expanding and creating a larger economy?
Do they employ thousands of people?
Do they spend large amounts of money on construction and renovation of buildings?

And deregulation of hours will do nothing to help small guys. Otr got big because they have a highly successful model. People like the stores.
In the end business needs to create products customers want.

No-one goes to GG? Plenty of people go to Gourmet Glaze because they have build a good rapport with their consumers... Where are they? They're in the most centrally located shopping strip in Adelaide... Considering how out of the way Krispy Kreme's locations are (for the most part), location really has nothing to do with it.
Gourmet Glaze have had plans to open new stores for close to seven years.. They haven't moved forward with the plans, not because there is no market but because these kinds of things cost money and lots of it. How much does Peregrine turn over annually in comparison to Gourmet Glaze? Forget the fact that GG is run by a Makris because it doesn't make running such a business any easier, does your father pay your way in life? Probably not, so why would so many of you assume that a billionaire would do so for his son?
In future, perhaps know what you're talking about before making such false claims.

Gourmet Glaze have actually done better trade since KK opened their doors, however their move into James Place has shaken their earnings. The fact that Peregrine are actively trying to destroy their local competition by setting up shop so close just goes to show where their thinking is at.

Anyway, my dislike for OTR and Peregrine stems far beyond Krispy Kremes / Gourmet Glaze. I also have family who ownED a Subway at Magill which has recently closed it's doors because they couldn't make decent trade no thanks to OTR Subway on Glynburn Road taking it all. Subway have policy that regulates the distance that has to exist between each Subway store, OTR have time and time again breached that policy. Hence why Subway have finally scaled back their franchising with OTR.
Furthermore, the poor quality of their subs leaves a lasting bad legacy for all other Subway stores that actually deliver quality food.

[slenderman]

The way I see it is that Peregrine's success has mostly been because they took over of Mobil and BP sites over the last few years, which the ACCC allowed. Caltex wanted to take the Mobils back in '09, but weren't allowed by the ACCC because it would wreck competition, which is what we're seeing now with OTR, and it seems to be flowing into other industries as Patrick and rev point out.

There's almost 100 OTRs, about 35 regular Caltex, 30 Woolworths and 30 Coles servos across metro Adelaide, with a smaller number of other outlets (Mogas, United and Liberty mostly). There really aren't too many independents anymore. Off the top of my head, there's the one in the city, one opposite a Coles Express in Klemzig and one on Grange Road. I can name the location of quite a few independents that have shut in the past decade and a half. They're not yet a monopoly, but for the common punter a shiny new OTR is probably more attractive then a dingy old Caltex, so we might well see the others leave the market.

The way petrol goes, a fair few people probably just go to the closest servo because you're wasting time, money and petrol looking for lower prices, unless they're substantially lower. There's even two parts of Adelaide where they have two outlets across the road from each other. Once you're in the store and attracted to the overpriced snacks, that's where they start making real money. Clearly this is where they have their advantage, and this extra ability to display their brand name is what has allowed them to make the market more of a monopoly and get more people in the door to charge high prices to.

They've done quite a few other things, like rebuild some servos, have dollar-a-litre introductory prices and tried to increase customer experience by combining the Subway/Oporto/HJs, supermarket and petrol into the one location, as well as endearing themselves to the public by bringing KK to SA. Plus they annoyed the living hell out of us Crows fans last year at the footy with that stupid OTR dance, so clearly they've marketed and branded themselves well.

Still, to me they've definitely been quite predatory with their expansion. I can't think of too many areas where there's a non-OTR without an OTR in close proximity, and once they get you in the door, service doesn't seem to matter. Once you're in there, you're charged top dollar for servo goods (not that any servo is particularly cheap, but they're probably the worst) and their petrol prices are generally higher. There's a facebook group called "Boycott On The Run" where people talk about poor working conditions. I can't vouch for them, but when I go to an OTR, there's sometimes just one poor worker seemingly flipping the burgers, scooping the ice cream and selling the petrol simultaneously.

Just some of my 2 random cents.

[monotonehell]

OTR are advertising on bus shelters outside their competition. In this case it's one they have been trying to put out of business for 15 years.

11816210_10153065212099646_5768910838129132776_o.jpg (258.6 KiB) Viewed 6381 times

[Brucetiki]

The reason no one goes to GG is because where are they? Have they opened stores near me in easy to find and access locations? As far as I know they have a store in CX only. Only after feeling pressure from krispy kreme have they decided to open more stores.

Also, GG have some really customer unfriendly trading hours. I've been in City Cross at a variety of times and on every occasion GG was closed. Meanwhile KK next door is open.

I'd like to give them a try but they're never open.

[bits]

Where are they? They're in the most centrally located shopping strip in Adelaide... Considering how out of the way Krispy Kreme's locations are (for the most part), location really has nothing to do with it.

Yea I don't think people are food shopping in Rundle Mall all that often.
If it was the place to be, would Foodland not be there? Why was Coles absent for so long?
Food stores and restaurants are well place next to residential areas such as the suburbs.

[Patrick_27]

Where are they? They're in the most centrally located shopping strip in Adelaide... Considering how out of the way Krispy Kreme's locations are (for the most part), location really has nothing to do with it.

Yea I don't think people are food shopping in Rundle Mall all that often.
If it was the place to be, would Foodland not be there? Why was Coles absent for so long?
Food stores and restaurants are well place next to residential areas such as the suburbs.

What are you even talking about?

Last I checked, Gourmet Glaze wasn't aiming to attract consumers as they finished their grocery shopping, they're not Wendy's... They're located in a food court, where they hope to catch people who have finished their lunch and are looking for a sweet treat before returning to work. This would probably explain their narrow trading hours.

Tell me, how exactly is a KK attached to a service station on the deadest part of Port Road is smart positioning? Furthermore, where exactly is the closest Coles or Foodland to this location?

[Nathan]

Coles at Welland is almost directly across the road from the OTR/KK. And there's a Foodland not too much further towards Woodville.

(I agree with you that GGs trading hours aren't much of an issue.)

[SBD]

Rather than OTR taking over every nook and cranny of South Australia's service station business and squashing any remaining independent servos both in Adelaide and regional SA, why don't they expand into interstate markets and shake things up with the bigger companies like 7-Eleven? OR do they only have the courage to bully small local business?

OTR would seem to be happy to reinforce or predate on their own businesses too. When OTR bought the company-owned BP stations in SA, they were requred (by ACCC) to on-sell the one on Main North Road opposite the Hillbank OTR. They were not required to on-sell the one at Smithfield which is only two doors along from an existing OTR (which also contains one of the three Subways in Smithfield). Nearby competition on MNR is Coles Express (Shell), and independant BP, and Caltex/Woolworths.

The new commercial area in the Playford Alive estate on Curtis Road has a new OTR+Oporto in it. The nearest service station in three directions from it is OTR (the ex-BP on MNR; Davoren Park on Peachey Road, and Angle Vale). What puzzles me most is that they can all have different fuel prices at any given moment - for several months, it was worth me driving past three of them to go to Angle Vale to buy diesel for my car! OTR did not make the whinges that Woolworths did asking for rate relief before they would build in the new area (Woolies are currently building despite the council refusing the discounts).

Wesfarmers (Coles) and Woolworths are Australian listed companies, Peregrine (OTR) is private SA-owned, so is my local Foodland (Chapley). BP, Shell, Caltex are foreign, just like Holden has been since the 1930s.

[bits]

Coles at Welland is almost directly across the road from the OTR/KK. And there's a Foodland not too much further towards Woodville.

There is also about 6 Woolworths supermarkets closer and easier to freely park at from KK Port Rd than Rundle Mall.
Of course similar numbers of Coles and Foodlands besides the ones directly opposite.

So Patrick what I am even talking about is KK being surrounded by other large companies that sell food. All these large multimillion/billion dollar companies are not fools for investing the majority of their money in stores outside of Rundle Mall. KK is in the suburbs because that's where the shoppers are.
Rundle Mall is the out of the way location, not Port Rd.

[Patrick_27]

Coles at Welland is almost directly across the road from the OTR/KK. And there's a Foodland not too much further towards Woodville.

There is also about 6 Woolworths supermarkets closer and easier to freely park at from KK Port Rd than Rundle Mall.
Of course similar numbers of Coles and Foodlands besides the ones directly opposite.

So Patrick what I am even talking about is KK being surrounded by other large companies that sell food. All these large multimillion/billion dollar companies are not fools for investing the majority of their money in stores outside of Rundle Mall. KK is in the suburbs because that's where the shoppers are.
Rundle Mall is the out of the way location, not Port Rd.

Can you please enlighten me on the relevance of your point?

Krispy Kremes have ONE suburban store, for the most part the purpose of that store is to bake doughnuts; I'd be interested to see that store's their sale stats since the other two stores opened in the CBD.
Their other two stores as I've already mentioned are in the city, one which is less than 100m from Gourmet Glaze, so I ask again... What is the relevance of your point?
Gourmet Glaze is in CityX foodcourt with a variety of other food stalls, that foodcourt is just off a shopping mall which has further food stalls inside other arcades, that shopping strip is part of a business district which has hundreds of restaurants and cafes. So, let me ask you one last time. What is the relevance of your point?

Regardless of their turnover, Gourmet Glaze would be stupid to ever open stores in suburban locations that aren't Marion or TTP, anywhere else wouldn't make the necessary return to survive. In regards to Marion and TTP, have you checked how much the rent is at either of those two shopping centres? Would you expand with those rates?

I'll admit, as I have in the past; GG need to reestablish their strategy. This was to branch out to North Adelaide and establish themselves at sporting and other public events (such the Fringe). If any of this is to happen, they'll probably wait for Krispy Kreme to opening their remaining planned stores and settle then make their move once the hype has died down completely.

Also, I apologise if I come across as aggressive, I'm quite calm.

[bits]

GG appear to have stores planned for North Adelaide and Gilles Plains shopping centres.
http://www.gourmetglaze.com.au/contact-us-gg-stores.php

I will definitely go to GG at Gilles Plains

[rev]

Coles at Welland is almost directly across the road from the OTR/KK. And there's a Foodland not too much further towards Woodville.

There is also about 6 Woolworths supermarkets closer and easier to freely park at from KK Port Rd than Rundle Mall.
Of course similar numbers of Coles and Foodlands besides the ones directly opposite.

So Patrick what I am even talking about is KK being surrounded by other large companies that sell food. All these large multimillion/billion dollar companies are not fools for investing the majority of their money in stores outside of Rundle Mall. KK is in the suburbs because that's where the shoppers are.
Rundle Mall is the out of the way location, not Port Rd.

Things are in the suburbs because people want convenience.
Someone from North Haven isn't going to drive to Rundle Mall to do their grocery shopping. It's common sense and logical to have supermarkets in suburbia and other things.
You then have fast food chains which take advantage of this and spread like wild fire throughout the suburbs. Because again, people want convenience.

People are against fast food because it's junk food and it's bad for our health. It is contributing to the obesity problem in a massive way and our unhealthy lifestyles.
So while it provides part time employment opportunities for youth, it is has an overall negative impact on society and that is recognized.

Peregrine/OTR, while providing employment opportunities despite the fact they use and abuse their employees, have an overall negative impact on society because they are destroying what little small businesses are left, and they are purposefully doing it and going out of their way to hurt their competitors.

While they may not be breaking any laws(I don't know, I'm not an expert on that stuff), morally they are a bankrupt company.

While some of you keep highlighting the fact that they are South Australian, while other big companies are not, that doesn't take away from what they, the local South Australian company, has done to countless other smaller South Australian's. An important fact lost on some of you, some of you which I've never seen around here before...which is interesting.

[Chats]

While they may not be breaking any laws(I don't know, I'm not an expert on that stuff), morally they are a bankrupt company.

Really people should be know better than to write crap like that on the Internet. So you have a beef with Peregrine/OTR. Good on you. However, some people might construe that comment as a somewhat libellous statement.

See the below for a recent example.

"Australian couple cop $15,000 Facebook defamation bill"
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/techno ... iux95.html

[rev]

While they may not be breaking any laws(I don't know, I'm not an expert on that stuff), morally they are a bankrupt company.

Really people should be know better than to write crap like that on the Internet. So you have a beef with Peregrine/OTR. Good on you. However, some people might construe that comment as a somewhat libellous statement.

See the below for a recent example.

"Australian couple cop $15,000 Facebook defamation bill"
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/techno ... iux95.html

I haven't defamed anyone, that's stating the facts about a corporation and it's business practices.
I'm posting my opinion, based on the facts of how Peregrine operate.
Any company that plasters their brand in highly visible public transport shelters directly across the road from their competitors, any company that opens competing franchises of the same fast food chain across the road from an existing independent franchise from that fast food company, any company that deliberately opens up multiple outlets of their own surrounding their competitors, is a predatory company that bullies it's competition with the intent of putting them out of business.

Have you stopped by facebook yet, and threatened all the former OTR employees who have been airing the bullying practices of store managers and other higher ups and the poor conditions they are made to work under?


You know, if we were wrong, or if were making things up, you would have countered that by posting the truth and exposing the lies.
But you chose to make a veiled threat of legal action, which confirms what is being discussed is true and you want this discussion to end so people stop talking about the negative impact OTR has had and is continuing to have on South Australian communities and small businesses.

Not that we think Coles or Woolies servos are having a positive impact. But I don't think we will see them signing up to the forum to make a veiled or direct threat of legal action even if the discussion was entirely about them.


I actually don't have a "beef" with anyone, let alone a company that I can choose to avoid using their services and products, which I do.
LOL. I'm actually laughing at your veiled threat.
You are behaving as if this is personal, as if OTR is the first company in the history of the world to have had something negative said about something negative they've done.

My god. Imagine if Telstra behaved like this every time someone said their services were shit.
The court system across Australia would have to postpone every other trial and hearing just to deal with Telstra's hurt ego.