Beer Garden

[Nathan]

Then tell us Rev, what will Elizabeth Quay add that will make it a plan "with balls", aside from some Chevron logos?

You don't get it and probably never will because you're limited to your little box.
A ten year old could see what I'm pointing out about the inadequacies, but you...we'll you saw the pictures from Perth and your only train of thought is that im talking about the skyscrapers. Even though I said nothing about them and pointed out what I was talking about and stated it's not about tall shiny buildings.

Rev, I'm not talking about the skyscrapers. I'm asking you, directly, what does Elizabeth Quay have specifically that makes it a much better space? I want to know.

[claybro]

As a resident of Perth, perhaps I can off some insight. Elizabeth Quay is definately controversial here, mainly due to public space being given over to commercial interests. But it is the commercial interets that form a significant part of funding for this site. As for the site itself, The CBD previously largely turned its back on the river, with a wall of skyscrapers fronting a largely unused and oversized lawn area, blazing hot in summer and cold wet and windy in winter, stuck between the freeway interchange to the west and the belltower tourist complex/ferry terminal to the east. It looked very spectacular from the Kings Park lookout, but was not practicle on ground level. At least this developement will entice large numbers of people down to the various cafes, bars and function venues associated with the marina, and put some life into a previously large underutilised space. It will connect the commercial activity of the CBD, with the river and bring a residential componenet to this end of the city.

[victorious80]

Claybro, you make a good point about bringing residential component to that part of Perth. I would love to see some sort of residential offering as part of the Riverbank plan. Not sure how or where - that would be up to someone with more planning knowledge than I. But a residential component would add to the pedestrian activity of the area at all times, not only during times when there are festivals or events at AO. Residents would be the ones having breakfast in little cafes along the river, having dinner at restaurants, running along the lake, watching the big screen at the Festival Square, sitting on the grass by the river reading a book or playing with the kids at the purpose built water playground. Without this residential component, I think that activity in the area will continue to be severely limited outside of event days, no matter how many attractions you add.

Imagine having residential both sides of the river? Perhaps west of AO, as part of an upgraded memorial drive? Perhaps west of Morphett St bridge facing the new medical precinct? Perhaps part of the casino upgrade? Don't know how and don't profess to know, but imagine having substantial buildings on both sides of the river? The river would then be an integrated part of the city as opposed to just sitting next to the city. You can still have plenty of open space around and between the buildings to ensure it is not a concrete jungle.

I would imagine demand for residential in this area would be very high due to the fantastic location and views. I also imagine it would be extremely expensive to design and construct, and also difficult to push through the parklands red tape. But that is all part of the planning process. Wouldn't need to be 25 storey towers either - even 5 to 10 storey buildings would make a huge difference. Add in some commercial office space and you have all the ingredients for a healthy, productive and sustainable little area.

I empathise with Rev's thoughts - when you look at the plan produced by the government, it seems to be very conservative and lacks long term vision. Perhaps this is a product of the tight economic position the government is in, or perhaps just a symptom of not wanting to rock the boat too much, but the plan is a little underwhelming.

Perhaps with the success of AO, the medical precinct and the talk about Memorial Drive, the plan may evolve. I certainly hope so, because I think there is untapped potential just waiting to be unleashed by some savvy planners and ambitious decision makers.

[rev]

Then tell us Rev, what will Elizabeth Quay add that will make it a plan "with balls", aside from some Chevron logos?

You don't get it and probably never will because you're limited to your little box.
A ten year old could see what I'm pointing out about the inadequacies, but you...we'll you saw the pictures from Perth and your only train of thought is that im talking about the skyscrapers. Even though I said nothing about them and pointed out what I was talking about and stated it's not about tall shiny buildings.

Rev, I'm not talking about the skyscrapers. I'm asking you, directly, what does Elizabeth Quay have specifically that makes it a much better space? I want to know.

You're not talking about tall buildings? Yet your initial reply focused on just that, and even in the quotes above, your talking about Chevron logos.

It's very clear what I'm talking about, I've even stated it, yet you still don't get it.
If you don't understand, that's fine.

[Nathan]

You're not talking about tall buildings? Yet your initial reply focused on just that, and even in the quotes above, your talking about Chevron logos.

It's very clear what I'm talking about, I've even stated it, yet you still don't get it.
If you don't understand, that's fine.

I've asked you three times to explain it, and you haven't. Why so hesitant? You said it's not about the skyscrapers but haven't given any reason why it's so impressive. I only mentioned Chevron because it's the very first thing in the sales pitch in your second image. Are you talking about it being a man made inlet, with your mention that we would never ever widen part of the Torrens? I hate to tell you, but the banks of the Torrens Lake aren't the original river banks.

I'm not saying it's a bad project, but I don't know any more about it other than the renders you posted and the bit of extra context given by Claybro.

[rev]

You're not talking about tall buildings? Yet your initial reply focused on just that, and even in the quotes above, your talking about Chevron logos.

It's very clear what I'm talking about, I've even stated it, yet you still don't get it.
If you don't understand, that's fine.

I've asked you three times to explain it, and you haven't. Why so hesitant? You said it's not about the skyscrapers but haven't given any reason why it's so impressive. I only mentioned Chevron because it's the very first thing in the sales pitch in your second image. Are you talking about it being a man made inlet, with your mention that we would never ever widen part of the Torrens? I hate to tell you, but the banks of the Torrens Lake aren't the original river banks.

I'm not saying it's a bad project, but I don't know any more about it other than the renders you posted and the bit of extra context given by Claybro.

Granted my post is a bit of a rant, but if you read, you'd know what I'm talking about.

Instead you want to be a wise ass and try and belittle people.
You aren't interested in a discussion.

[Nathan]

I've not tried to be a wise arse or belittle you. I just want to know what about that project we should be holding as an example to strive for, because however many posts later, I still genuinely don't know what you're talking about. Every time I ask you just repeat that I should know.

[rev]

I don't feel like, nor see a need to repeat my self.

I just want to know what about that project we should be holding as an example to strive for

Because whatever I say, even though I've said it already, you will just come back to your original argument of skyscrapers this, chevron logos that.

[victorious80]

Not wanting to sound like your mum, but seriously boys stop your arguing. You're not doing yourselves any favours and only damaging your own credibility. I am assuming you are both adults, so lets stop fighting and focus on something vaguely related to development. I don't want to get drawn into a specific Riverbank v Elizabeth Quays debate, but what I think rev is trying to point out is that Elizabeth Quays does the following:

- provides a reason for people to visit and remain in the development area - commercial buildings, residential buildings, retail, hotel
- many attractions including waterfront bars and restaurants, a water park, boat mooring facilities, cruise berths, public art
- wonderful architecture gives the development a very modern, big-city look to it (appearances are critical in this sort of development)
- a defined timeline
- invitation for commercial investment to take the financial burden off the government

Not all of these are applicable for Adelaide's Riverbank, but the intent and presentation of the developments really is chalk and cheese. One is a defined plan with clear objectives and milestones, financial backing, ambitious architecture and the ingredients for a sustainable hive of activity. The other is a very high level conceptual plan with minimal detail, no confirmed milestones, negligible improvement to the area and a website that does not function. No kidding, try it: http://www.riverbank.sa.gov.au/ .I hope it is my computer that is at fault, because if it is not, and not even the website works, then I doubt the government has any real commitment to this project.

[Nathan]

I really don't know why you think I'm attacking you Rev, because I'm not. I genuinely wanted to know what features of Elizabeth Quays you think are great, because it wasn't clear to me from your original post. I don't want an argument, I just wanted more detail. Somehow that makes me an arsehole.

Thank you Victorius for the additional details - that's what I'm after. The Riverbank website was taken down when RenewalSA launched their new website, and some of the details have been rolled into it (https://renewalsa.sa.gov.au/projects/gr ... recinct-2/). It's my understanding that RenewalSA and ODASA have been working on a new master plan following on from the community consultations (although granted that was a year and a half ago now).

I really think we have the bones for the riverbank to be good. The Festival Centre is a landmark building, that unfortunately has been underfunded for years and is desperate for refurbishment. There's a hotel, a casino, a railway station, a convention centre, and the new oval. The elements are there. But there's some fundamental issues (access, access, access) that have been inherited from the original ASER project that continue to put handbrakes on the area developing it's potential (and sadly an opportunity to address that with the convention centre redevelopment hasn't been taken).

[ml69]

I really think we have the bones for the riverbank to be good. The Festival Centre is a landmark building, that unfortunately has been underfunded for years and is desperate for refurbishment. There's a hotel, a casino, a railway station, a convention centre, and the new oval. The elements are there. But there's some fundamental issues (access, access, access) that have been inherited from the original ASER project that continue to put handbrakes on the area developing it's potential (and sadly an opportunity to address that with the convention centre redevelopment hasn't been taken).

Yes we have the bones already in place, but much more needs to be done and many of these things are addressed in the ARM master plan from a couple of years ago.

But hey I understand why some ppl here feel that the master plan is a bit underwhelming, there probably needs to be more wow factor added to the master plan.

Things I have in mind include:

- Public observation deck with restaurant/cafe/bar on top of a new 25+ storey landmark hotel located behind Old Parliament House. Would look great on the postcard view and show further 'progress' in Adelaide
- Water and light show on the Torrens every night to draw people down to the riverbank
- Water park and adventure playground on the riverbank to bring families to the area on weekends (located west of Morphett St bridge)
- Festival Square as proposed in the ARM masterplan, but I'd suggest instead of facing KW Street, I'd suggest a more central location where the civic/cultural building was proposed. I'd also cover it with a transparent canopy (lighted at night with LED lighting) so it can be used in all weather conditions and be suitable for things like weekend markets
- A pub/hotel with live music facing the Torrens near the footbridge
- Plus the other facilities proposed in the ARM masterplan ... Casino redevelopment + hotel, new Festival Theatre entrance at Festival Sq level, new restaurants/cafes/bars facing the Torrens etc
- Redeveloped Memorial Drive arena
- High quality landscaping through the precinct, like what we now have on North Tce

[rev]

Whose bright idea was it to close south road between port and Torrens all day?

[Norman]

Whose bright idea was it to close south road between port and Torrens all day?

Pretty sure there was a car accident during the day which caused high voltage power lines to come down and create a driving hazard.

[rev]

Whose bright idea was it to close south road between port and Torrens all day?

Pretty sure there was a car accident during the day which caused high voltage power lines to come down and create a driving hazard.

Heard it on the radio during the day, all I saw was the power crews doing the powerlines, didn't hear about a car accident.
Either way, highlights the importance of getting this section underway asap.

[rev]

Don't know about the rest of you but I'm sick of hearing about the bali 9 scum drug smugglers. Would Indonesia just shoot them already so the media in this country can find something else to get their ratings up?

Here's what our media had to say in 2006..



It doesn't matter what they deserve according to us. What matters is what laws they broke in another country and what the punishment is for breaking those laws in that country.
Our media now trying to win even more sympathy for these c&&&$ and get their ratings up by saying Indonesia has won clemency for 200 of it's citizens is ridiculous.

Too bad our country doesn't have the death penalty, certainly a fair few scumbags in this country who deserve to be executed.