News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[PD2/20]

South Australia's energy malaise in a nutshell...

Also from the CanstarBlue website is a comparison of average quarterly electricity bills where the ranking of states is somewhat different, with TAS top, and SA and NSW close together. The usage rates c/kWh are one factor that determine total bill cost, but the structure of the entire tariff including supply charges is also important.

Average Quarterly Electricity Bills

Click on image for full scale version.

[SBD]

The diesel generators are a LAST RESORT only....not going to be switched on unless the overseeing electricity authority believe it is "Lack of reserve level 3" situation ie forecast indicates that there could be blackouts due to lack of power otherwise they will stay switched off.

Hopefully this situation will be remedied in the short term with large batteries coming online...I am thinking of the proposed 500mw/1500mwh battery in the south east or the large Neoen battery at Goyder in the mid north.

Those diesel plants will inevitably shut for good....never to be heard of ever again.

And as for South Australia's high electricity prices, yes we know that...how about actually doing some research and giving us a breakdown on how the prices are generated...

Here is my take...

1) Gas is extremely expensive, routinely 5 times the price of wind and solar

2) All the batteries are controlled by 2 companies, we need more competition. AGL routinely charges the "gas" price when using the batteries they own. AGL built the big battery on Torrens Island so that their gas assets would not be undercut by other batteries.

3) South Australia reportedly has the highest transmission/distribution costs in the country. Hard to verify because these costs are considered "confidential" and the industry doesn't like these costs being scrutinized by the media.
Also South Australia has a lot of poles and wires to maintain for a very small population....hundreds of kilometres of electrical connectivity to be looked after for relatively few people.
Adelaide effectively subsidises effectively electricity costs to the non metropolitan areas.
What about WA you say..."surely the costs are higher there"?
WA has 3 separate electricity grids....no connection between them...and now in WA they are less likely to replace old or burnt out transmission wires, instead stand alone mini grids using solar and batteries are being built in rural areas...why?.....because it is cheaper than building hundreds of kilometres of new transmission lines.

4) Lack of retail competition in South Australia....small market, the big companies are not interested in "discounting" here to increase their market share whereas this tactic is used in the Eastern states all the time.

all political talking points invented to obfuscate from the reality, which is a situation that was manufactured by... politicians

I see them repeated online at the same time, its as if you're all reading from the same ALP press releases

what you forget is I didn't just arrive here from Punjab last week, I've been here for several decades and been paying power bills for as long and recall when power prices were a fraction of what they are now.... when we had our own operational power stations

I did not hear if it was reported how much the Government will pay Engie to keep two power stations on stand by instead of mothballs.

I've also never heard or found any information on the structure of transmission and distribution payments. Even in the old days, we had a connected transmission grid (now run by Electranet) with distributed generation. Are there cost/market considerations in which power stations are used at any moment, or is it purely determined by the capacity limit of each transmission line, and using the lowest bid generator, wherever it is?

More focused, is it sometimes cheaper to use Adelaide area gas and diesel generators to supply Adelaide area load than to use cheaper generators with higher transmission costs from country areas?

[rubberman]

The diesel generators are a LAST RESORT only....not going to be switched on unless the overseeing electricity authority believe it is "Lack of reserve level 3" situation ie forecast indicates that there could be blackouts due to lack of power otherwise they will stay switched off.

Hopefully this situation will be remedied in the short term with large batteries coming online...I am thinking of the proposed 500mw/1500mwh battery in the south east or the large Neoen battery at Goyder in the mid north.

Those diesel plants will inevitably shut for good....never to be heard of ever again.

And as for South Australia's high electricity prices, yes we know that...how about actually doing some research and giving us a breakdown on how the prices are generated...

Here is my take...

1) Gas is extremely expensive, routinely 5 times the price of wind and solar

2) All the batteries are controlled by 2 companies, we need more competition. AGL routinely charges the "gas" price when using the batteries they own. AGL built the big battery on Torrens Island so that their gas assets would not be undercut by other batteries.

3) South Australia reportedly has the highest transmission/distribution costs in the country. Hard to verify because these costs are considered "confidential" and the industry doesn't like these costs being scrutinized by the media.
Also South Australia has a lot of poles and wires to maintain for a very small population....hundreds of kilometres of electrical connectivity to be looked after for relatively few people.
Adelaide effectively subsidises effectively electricity costs to the non metropolitan areas.
What about WA you say..."surely the costs are higher there"?
WA has 3 separate electricity grids....no connection between them...and now in WA they are less likely to replace old or burnt out transmission wires, instead stand alone mini grids using solar and batteries are being built in rural areas...why?.....because it is cheaper than building hundreds of kilometres of new transmission lines.

4) Lack of retail competition in South Australia....small market, the big companies are not interested in "discounting" here to increase their market share whereas this tactic is used in the Eastern states all the time.

all political talking points invented to obfuscate from the reality, which is a situation that was manufactured by... politicians

I see them repeated online at the same time, its as if you're all reading from the same ALP press releases

what you forget is I didn't just arrive here from Punjab last week, I've been here for several decades and been paying power bills for as long and recall when power prices were a fraction of what they are now.... when we had our own operational power stations

It's hardly an ALP talking point that the Liberals sold our power assets. That's a historical fact. If we don't have our own operational power stations, who else can you blame? Heck, Weatherill even tried to restart ETSA, and bought some power generation capacity. What did the Liberals do on regaining Government in 2018? Sold it off.

I'm sick of hearing renewables being blamed for Government policy failures.

[PeFe]

I did not hear if it was reported how much the Government will pay Engie to keep two power stations on stand by instead of mothballs.

I've also never heard or found any information on the structure of transmission and distribution payments. Even in the old days, we had a connected transmission grid (now run by Electranet) with distributed generation. Are there cost/market considerations in which power stations are used at any moment, or is it purely determined by the capacity limit of each transmission line, and using the lowest bid generator, wherever it is?

More focused, is it sometimes cheaper to use Adelaide area gas and diesel generators to supply Adelaide area load than to use cheaper generators with higher transmission costs from country areas?

There is no cost advantage for using power plants "closer to Adelaide"...these are usually gas....and gas on average is 5 times the cost of wind and solar.
The cost of transmission is usually not a huge consideration (wholesale price is the major consideration) however the cost of maintaining long isolated electrical power lines adds huge costs overall.

Take the cost of providing electricity to Eyre Peninsula versus the cost to metro Adelaide in terms of per person. I have no doubt there is a huge disparity between the two, maintenance costs per head of population would be horrendous for Eyre Peninsula (even though the lines are tiny compared to the huge electrical transponders coming into Adelaide)

Here are the last 12 months if wholesale spot prices in SA (You can change the time range or state if you wish, or only select certain modes)

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified