Sensational-Adelaide.com

[Shuz] wrote:Wholly in favour of the idea. Northern Expressway, Southern Expressway, Port River Expressway and the Superway should all be toll roads.

The South East Freeway shouldn't be tolled, because it is literally the only suitable traffic route available through the Adelaide Hills. As for the other 'freeways / highways', there are alternative roads/routes available to motorists.

The problem we have in this state (and likely in the hole country) is that serious debate is simply no longer possible.

Both sides of politics have reduced Australians to shrill alarmists who simply jump at the chance to proclaim the apocalypse whenever anything is proposed, or we have to ask ourselves who is looking after the undefined hard working poor people that appear to fill our state/country.

It is a sad state of affairs IMO.

As an idea, it's worth considering.

In the US State of Oregon, motorists in a voluntary scheme pay 1.5¢ in road charges for every mile they drive.

The same motorists do not pay a 30¢ a gallon fuel tax.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/2 ... for-roads/

I would have to say that in the past I would have objected, but with the increasing construction costs and community/business expectations, it seems to be the only way of funding. I am not suggesting a full toll, but a nominal rate for the commuter and higher for freight that offsets the initial outlay interest and maintenance, would appear a fair way to go.

Full private toll roads are a (excuse the pun) train wreck, as Airport link demonstrates, but a sensible non profit approach should be palatable to the public. Wonder who will have the political guts to head that way.

If they fully upgrade the north-south corridor as the North south Motorway, yes I will then pay tolls for.


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I understand a lot of people are against toll roads (why should I pay for something that's free!!) but we all pay for our roads. Whether directly (those that just use it) or indirectly (the cost of it evenly distributed across all tax payers.)

I'm in favour of paying for infrastructure more directly, because, quiet frankly, I don't care about paying for roads on the other side of the city that I rarely use, and you would probably feel the same about mine. Also, when you see the roads that generate the most revenue, you can use that money to invest back in to improving that particular road.

There are pros and cons with each method - most people don't like the idea of toll gates, but I'd be for an automatic method that tracks your car, and distributes your fuel or milage tax to the roads you use the most.

Billi-X wrote:Wholly in favour of the idea. Northern Expressway, Southern Expressway, Port River Expressway and the Superway should all be toll roads.

so people coming from Gawler will eventually have to pay 2 tolls to get to work at wingfield?

GoodSmackUp wrote:

Billi-X wrote:Wholly in favour of the idea. Northern Expressway, Southern Expressway, Port River Expressway and the Superway should all be toll roads.

so people coming from Gawler will eventually have to pay 2 tolls to get to work at wingfield?

yep.

I'm currently in Victoria, and coming in (afternoon peak), the burnleigh tunnel was banked up for a couple of kilometers, and traffic was moving 40k/h at best. I exited just before because I refused to pay for a road that I am going to be moving that slowly along. If traffic was moving at 80+ I would have gone through.

I support toll roads in SA, for the same roads listed above, but I would hate to see them become anything like the mess I experienced yesterday. I guess it is inevitable as Adelaides population increases though.

GoodSmackUp wrote:

Billi-X wrote:Wholly in favour of the idea. Northern Expressway, Southern Expressway, Port River Expressway and the Superway should all be toll roads.

so people coming from Gawler will eventually have to pay 2 tolls to get to work at wingfield?

Only one once the northern connector is built.

neoballmon wrote:

GoodSmackUp wrote:

Billi-X wrote:Wholly in favour of the idea. Northern Expressway, Southern Expressway, Port River Expressway and the Superway should all be toll roads.

so people coming from Gawler will eventually have to pay 2 tolls to get to work at wingfield?

Only one once the northern connector is built.

I don't know how you maths but that would make 3 toll roads from Gawler to Wingfield.

I am against toll roads. If a toll is there to simply pay for the road itself all that will happen is in areas with lots of industry and therefore traffic, lots of money will be generated, but struggling areas will continue to struggle; enter the spiral of death for regions.
You will create ghettos which will impact the entire state.

The Australian states federated because it is better to spread the load, areas that are under performing are given a hand from areas that are doing well.
South Australia is an under performing state and is lifted by the states which are performing well. One day South Australia will be on top of its game and will be holding up some other state.

Wingfield might be doing well and therefore road projects for its highway would be fundable but say Edwardstown, Lonsdale, Adelaide Hills or Barossa are struggling; do we just let them die because of the temporary failure?

We pay general taxes(income, GST, water/sewage, land oh the list goes on), we supplement that with many user pay taxes such as fuel, drivers license, rego, general GST on other car related purchases(servicing, oil, tyres etc). Why do we need another localized tax stream to fund projects that are clearly in the states/countries interest?

Q. To toll or not to toll?

New Daily item on Toll Roads interstate.
OTT profits, generous tolls and escalation formulae.
Revenue growth outstripping traffic growth as tolls escalate. Co., Shareholders reaping benefit.
Cheaper ways to provide public infrastructure according to one independent expert.

Excerpts:

".... shares of toll road operator Transurban are at record levels as motorists fork out huge amounts on tolls.
The toll giant, which owns major roads like CityLink in Melbourne, the M2 and M7 motorways in Sydney, and Clem Jones and the Gateway motorways in Brisbane, just announced its half-year results which saw revenues jump a whopping 19.3 per cent to $990 million, while earnings were up 14.6 per cent to $729 million.

Revenue growth v traffic growth.

Transurban is a massive machine that feeds in concrete, tar and motor vehicles at one end and spits out money at the other. The more Australians drive, the more profitable it becomes.

The last half-year ...
Toll revenues rose by 19.3 per cent which was way higher than traffic growth.

In Sydney, traffic grew nine per cent and toll revenues were up 14.9 per cent. In Melbourne, traffic was up only 1.9 per cent but tolls grew at 7.4 per cent, while in Brisbane traffic grew at 9.6 per cent while toll revenue grew at 11.4 per cent

The toll revenue grows quicker than traffic because of the formula the company uses to boost its tolls. Transurban has concessions from state governments to levy tolls on its motorways for set periods of time and these have escalation formulae in the contracts.

Alternatives?

... independent transport economist Dr Chris Hale says the tolling arrangements are too generous and there are cheaper ways to provide the infrastructure without over-rewarding.

“If it (CityLink) was a public project the tolls would have paid for it many times over. It would be paid off or the tolls used to build other infrastructure."

Dr Hale compared Transurban to Queensland’s passenger rail network which earns a return of about eight per cent on its capital. Transurban earns far more than that, with its earnings currently growing at 14.6 per cent.

“At the end of the day it’s not an efficient arrangement for the community." “Transurban needs to earn a decent return, not an outrageous return"

Investment in public transport infrastructure?
New Daily:
http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2016/02 ... -sky-high/

Governments need to stop setting up businesses in monopolies.

That's not how the marketplace works.

monotonehell wrote:Governments need to stop setting up businesses in monopolies.

That's not how the marketplace works.

Amazing isn't it. What's worse is when a government assets is sold under the guise of free markets but all it does is create the dammed monopoly

Just don't use the toll roads- a toll strike would work. There are alternative routes. Granted, they are more congested. But outside of peak times, the choice to drive out of our way to get to the toll road is often just out of habit, or laziness. Australians are ripped off in every aspect of daily life, be it our morning coffee, clothes, electricity, IT items/use, PT fares, tolls. The operators get away with it, because Australians have become bloated and too lazy to shop around in the good times. Stop using the toll roads for commuting, leave them to the transport industry who actually should be paying for it as they earn money from the roads., let the trains and busses get to crush load, and the public outcry and dis-function in the cities would soon force change. Better PT, and cheaper tolls.

Waewick wrote:

monotonehell wrote:Governments need to stop setting up businesses in monopolies.

That's not how the marketplace works.

Amazing isn't it. What's worse is when a government assets is sold under the guise of free markets but all it does is create the dammed monopoly

It's tantamount to corruption - they set up their mates in monopoly. All while cheering for free market capitalism.

I want a national ICAC with big teeth. So sick of it.