Best place for an indoor multi-use arena is the current tennis stadium and next gen gym.
Demolish the lot, close off war memorial drive between montefiore road and frome road, build an indoor arena closer to montefiore road/the torrens, and down the other side at Red Gum Park, build a rectangular stadium for soccer/rugby. With the removal of that section of War Memorial Drive, and the small section of Sir Edwin Smith Ave that cuts through the park, they can create a large plaza like/green space between Montefiore Road and Frome Road between the stadiums.
If they didn't go and build a swimming center at Marion, they could built a swimming facility at the Torrens Parade ground. Although I asssume the building is heritage listed on someones list.
We'd then have a pretty decent stadium precinct with the only missing piece being a northern stand at Adelaide Oval.
West of Montifiore Road is probably the worst spot accessibility wise. It's a fair walk to public transport services. It should be located immediately west of AO or on the Torrens Parade Grounds.
No way on the Torrens Parade Ground. Don't even think about it. Untouchable.
This all-in-one idea of stadia + indoor arena combo is ridiculous for all the reasons pointed out in previous posts. There's also the not so small issue that the major tenants being considered - soccer, basketball, tennis, are all summer. No way it can work and each of the three codes will reject it straight off. I'm not surprised whoever is doing the review of this new scoping is doing it on the quiet - will be laughed out of town when it comes to the $$$ and business case.
Yes, soccer needs some love, but let's just put to bed this idea that it can be combined with other sporting calendars and the reality that is the Australian sports market. Basketball (summer) / Netball (winter) with major tennis tournaments (if any) and indoor events will move to an upgraded Memorial Drive based on a Hisense Arena (10,500) type model, underwritten by a demolished AEC and Titanium Security Arena. 36'ers training and junior/social basketball comps will shift to Priceline Stadium. Soccer will eventually get it's own upgraded facility somewhere and do what it can to entice events and other rectangular sporting codes to it.
FWIW, I thought I'd have some fun with locating where these facilities should go. Memorial Drive stays where it is of course without much more encroachment (although the build phase would be horrendous). Seems to be only four possible cites for a Hindmarsh sized facility. Interestingly, the only site which would suit a retractable pitch without significant impact, is in between the railway and the river on the south side. This would be my preferred spot for any type of soccer facility.
In short well said. It backs up what I said earlier.
As for your mock up, Hindmarsh (Coopers) Stadium is not an ideal example. A new stadium will take up more room. If one is built it will need to seat anything from 25,000 to 45,000. Perhaps look at other stadiums worldwide that are "world class". If it isn't world class, don't build it.
This all-in-one idea of stadia + indoor arena combo is ridiculous for all the reasons pointed out in previous posts. There's also the not so small issue that the major tenants being considered - soccer, basketball, tennis, are all summer. No way it can work and each of the three codes will reject it straight off. I'm not surprised whoever is doing the review of this new scoping is doing it on the quiet - will be laughed out of town when it comes to the $$$ and business case.
Yes, soccer needs some love, but let's just put to bed this idea that it can be combined with other sporting calendars and the reality that is the Australian sports market. Basketball (summer) / Netball (winter) with major tennis tournaments (if any) and indoor events will move to an upgraded Memorial Drive based on a Hisense Arena (10,500) type model, underwritten by a demolished AEC and Titanium Security Arena. 36'ers training and junior/social basketball comps will shift to Priceline Stadium. Soccer will eventually get it's own upgraded facility somewhere and do what it can to entice events and other rectangular sporting codes to it.
FWIW, I thought I'd have some fun with locating where these facilities should go. Memorial Drive stays where it is of course without much more encroachment (although the build phase would be horrendous). Seems to be only four possible cites for a Hindmarsh sized facility. Interestingly, the only site which would suit a retractable pitch without significant impact, is in between the railway and the river on the south side. This would be my preferred spot for any type of soccer facility.
Riverbank with stadia (2).png
Good luck putting a stadium on the top of Montefiore/Adelaide Oval 2.
I assume you've never actually been to that spot, to see how steep that decline is, and how little room there is.
Best place for an indoor multi-use arena is the current tennis stadium and next gen gym.
Demolish the lot, close off war memorial drive between montefiore road and frome road, build an indoor arena closer to montefiore road/the torrens, and down the other side at Red Gum Park, build a rectangular stadium for soccer/rugby. With the removal of that section of War Memorial Drive, and the small section of Sir Edwin Smith Ave that cuts through the park, they can create a large plaza like/green space between Montefiore Road and Frome Road between the stadiums.
If they didn't go and build a swimming center at Marion, they could built a swimming facility at the Torrens Parade ground. Although I asssume the building is heritage listed on someones list.
We'd then have a pretty decent stadium precinct with the only missing piece being a northern stand at Adelaide Oval.
Yes ideally the NextGen should never have been built there. A new tennis centre should go there. The rest I still think is impractical. I know you've mentioned this before rev, but a soccer stadium needs to be built elsewhere. Possibly in the area from Mile End to Keswick. ETSA Park would be perfect if that was relocated. You have rail close by and the possibility of trams in fuuture developments. Also requailifying the industrial areas to a TOD. Huge potential.
Best place for an indoor multi-use arena is the current tennis stadium and next gen gym.
Demolish the lot, close off war memorial drive between montefiore road and frome road, build an indoor arena closer to montefiore road/the torrens, and down the other side at Red Gum Park, build a rectangular stadium for soccer/rugby. With the removal of that section of War Memorial Drive, and the small section of Sir Edwin Smith Ave that cuts through the park, they can create a large plaza like/green space between Montefiore Road and Frome Road between the stadiums.
If they didn't go and build a swimming center at Marion, they could built a swimming facility at the Torrens Parade ground. Although I asssume the building is heritage listed on someones list.
We'd then have a pretty decent stadium precinct with the only missing piece being a northern stand at Adelaide Oval.
Yes ideally the NextGen should never have been built there. A new tennis centre should go there. The rest I still think is impractical. I know you've mentioned this before rev, but a soccer stadium needs to be built elsewhere. Possibly in the area from Mile End to Keswick. ETSA Park would be perfect if that was relocated. You have rail close by and the possibility of trams in fuuture developments. Also requailifying the industrial areas to a TOD. Huge potential.
Cheers
Oh yeh for sure there's other options or better options. I just like the idea of having the majority of major stadia centralized in a precinct.
[COM] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:01 pm
by Llessur2002
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
The existing Hindmarsh stadium is limited by the site and heritage listed buildings.
AEC site is too small and the configuration wouldn’t allow anything decent beyond what already exists up the road in coopers stadium.
One of the main points I believe is the same as to why AFL was moved to a redeveloped AO..central location that is more convenient and is close to major transport links that bring/take people from/to the suburbs. People walk across the new bridge to the train station, or catch a bus, or a tram, depending where they live. Or back to a car park of which the city has many.
Another justification was that it would draw more people to it given its proximity to the city and everything that offers.
Rebuilding at Hindmarsh only addresses one point..having a new stadium with updated facilities.
Its only popped up again as an issue because FFA is trying to get the women’s World Cup and Hindmarsh doesn’t meat fifa standards/requirements for a World Cup.
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
In its current form, Hindmarsh Stadium is a stadium of two halves. On one hand, it's the best rectangular stadium in the country for its purpose - the sight lines, dimensions, capacity, are perfect for HAL games and the envy of other teams stuck in expensive, cavernous pits like Lang Park and the SFS. On the other hand it has two main limitations - a lack of corporate suites and shelter. Hindmarsh would be perfect with these additions.
The management company and government have this totally wrong. Hindmarsh doesn't need to be closed, it needs to be completed.
[COM] Re: [VIS] Re: [VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
In its current form, Hindmarsh Stadium is a stadium of two halves. On one hand, it's the best rectangular stadium in the country for its purpose - the sight lines, dimensions, capacity, are perfect for HAL games and the envy of other teams stuck in expensive, cavernous pits like Lang Park and the SFS. On the other hand it has two main limitations - a lack of corporate suites and shelter. Hindmarsh would be perfect with these additions.
The management company and government have this totally wrong. Hindmarsh doesn't need to be closed, it needs to be completed.
We're going to go off track here but your comments need a reply. There are aspects of Hindmarsh (Coopers Stadium) that are good. The playing field is one of the best, it's superb. The outer stands are good, not exceptional, but decently good. Where it goes wrong is the main grandstand. The sightlines are not perfect. I remember when I was a photojournalist and had the opportunity to go to the top tier and take a view. It wasn't good. Perhaps good for the media in their box, but for the spectators, the angle was all wrong. Same with the first few rows of the next tier down. These are rows running above and along the passageways to the exits. The best views in the grandstand would be on the bottom tier running along the touchline as it is angled more steeply. It retained the same angle as the old stadium before the grandstand was upgraded. But even there the view can be obstructed by the player's race from some angles. Darn!
As mentioned the weather protection. The grandstand is pitiful. In the outer let's forget about it. The lack of corporate facilties, as you mentioned, needs to be rectified. Or else money won't flow to pay for the bills.
What this stadium needs is for it to move southwards by another 50 metres or so. Move the heirtage listed church and demolish the other surrounding buildings. Then move the north and south stands and build up the outer and re-do the main grandstand so that the whole stadium can be enclosed under one roof that covers all seated area. And presto!
Yes, Hindmarsh Stadium needs to completed with a world class mentality not a bandaid mentality.
Cheers
P.S. You've obviously seen something you like in Europe, Perhaps where you are at the moment... in the Czech Republic.
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
Ignore me - for some reason I thought that Hindmarsh Stadium was directly behind AEC and therefore the sites could be combined. Google Maps proves me very wrong
[COM] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 pm
by aceman
I'm all for development dont get me wrong but some here are suggesting we build a new facility on the torrens parade ground?? surely you're not being serious?? is this a joke??
If the plan is to move entertainment events to a new multipurpose (non-soccer) arena next to Adelaide Oval, why not build a new soccer stadium at Hindmarsh on the existing site combined with some or all of the AEC site?
In its current form, Hindmarsh Stadium is a stadium of two halves. On one hand, it's the best rectangular stadium in the country for its purpose - the sight lines, dimensions, capacity, are perfect for HAL games and the envy of other teams stuck in expensive, cavernous pits like Lang Park and the SFS. On the other hand it has two main limitations - a lack of corporate suites and shelter. Hindmarsh would be perfect with these additions.
The management company and government have this totally wrong. Hindmarsh doesn't need to be closed, it needs to be completed.
We're going to go off track here but your comments need a reply. There are aspects of Hindmarsh (Coopers Stadium) that are good. The playing field is one of the best, it's superb. The outer stands are good, not exceptional, but decently good. Where it goes wrong is the main grandstand. The sightlines are not perfect. I remember when I was a photojournalist and had the opportunity to go to the top tier and take a view. It wasn't good. Perhaps good for the media in their box, but for the spectators, the angle was all wrong. Same with the first few rows of the next tier down. These are rows running above and along the passageways to the exits. The best views in the grandstand would be on the bottom tier running along the touchline as it is angled more steeply. It retained the same angle as the old stadium before the grandstand was upgraded. But even there the view can be obstructed by the player's race from some angles. Darn!
As mentioned the weather protection. The grandstand is pitiful. In the outer let's forget about it. The lack of corporate facilties, as you mentioned, needs to be rectified. Or else money won't flow to pay for the bills.
What this stadium needs is for it to move southwards by another 50 metres or so. Move the heirtage listed church and demolish the other surrounding buildings. Then move the north and south stands and build up the outer and re-do the main grandstand so that the whole stadium can be enclosed under one roof that covers all seated area. And presto!
Yes, Hindmarsh Stadium needs to completed with a world class mentality not a bandaid mentality.
Cheers
P.S. You've obviously seen something you like in Europe, Perhaps where you are at the moment... in the Czech Republic.
I'll take what you say about the top tier of the members stand as gospel as I've never been in it personally. Sometimes I used to sit in the lower section in the City/West NSL days before it was expanded and had the new tier built over the top. I found it a bit annoying sitting on the level of the concourse because people walk in front of you, but it's not something that can be rectified. That sort of flaw is fairly common in football grounds around the world. Balance that with one thing the main stand has, and which should be the envy of world football: the snakepit bar. I mean, it's a bar, on the sideline. Compare that to UK where it's illegal to sell alcohol with LOS to the football pitch. This is what heaven looks like, I've been there, I've seen it, I've drunk in it.
I think you're right about needing to shift the pitch south, but 50m is overkill. From memory, the heritage issues are a church (although there is a general heritage protection zone covering a few buildings behind the south stand. Also, there's the small building in the SE corner. I think much could be achieved with about a 10m shift to the south. It would allow for the N,E and S stands to be replicated as a continuous 'bowl' around the ground. The first redevelopment proposal kept the pitch orientation however built the stands up on the wings to follow the shape of the street - the stadium layout literally looked like a paper aeroplane. From an aesthetic point, certainly unique. But economically wouldn't be justifiable, as there'd be a glut of non premium tickets in a stadium which is already top heavy with GA tickets and no high value offering.
What is certain to me is that the women's world cup would have some undesired outcomes for the long term sustainability of professional football. If a new stadium would come to fruition, it would likely be more expensive to rent and harder to fill. Adelaide United already have issues with affordability at Hindmarsh. From memory it's about 80k to rent for a match, as opposed to Sydney FC paying around 40k at the Sydney Football Stadium. Major events have been observed in many places to have lingering economic costs that outweigh the sugar hit the event provides in a month. Greece is an obvious example - almost every structure built is abandoned. London practically gave the main stadium to West Ham (and the fans loathe the place). Most stakeholders in Australian football are currently revolting against the FFA, and one of the many sticking points in the fans want smaller stadiums, not larger. This plan would give us the latter.
WRT your last comment - I see things I like in every place But as far as football stadiums go, Czech Republic is very much 'second world'. Grounds are typically like SANFL grounds but with more seats with some exceptions (Sparta, Plzen, Mlada Boleslav). As far as things in stadiums I like, it goes both ways with me. Hindmarsh is great, but this ground in Slovakia is a sentimental favourite:
But as far as football stadiums go, Czech Republic is very much 'second world'. Grounds are typically like SANFL grounds but with more seats with some exceptions (Sparta, Plzen, Mlada Boleslav). As far as things in stadiums I like, it goes both ways with me. Hindmarsh is great, but this ground in Slovakia is a sentimental favourite: