News & Discussion: Trams

[ml69]

When is the Libs going to release anything transport related... at this rate it could be another 4 years of Labor.

Whilst these tramline extensions to Norwood and North Adelaide is great news and will bring new investment to those suburbs, it would be better if the Labor Government committed to completing one project first (railway electrification) before embarking on multiple others. It seems so odd to spend money on the Bowden Junction, station upgrades and an extension to Port Adelaide yet no plans on electrifying the line. Maybe that's the next election pledge?

Totally agree. Why can't we just finish Gawler line electrification first (all the way to Gawler so all trains are electric), which was promised nearly 10 years ago!!! Upgrade and extend park and rides at major stations, and upgrade the crappy stations so people actually want to catch a train from these stations. Why has there been no mention of this? Northern suburb commuters would be rightfully p*ssed off that nothing has happened here in 10 years whilst Norwood and North Adelaide residents get a shiny new tram extension.

Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?

Then you would have all metro rail lines electrified with the exception of the Belair line. As committed to 10 years ago .... now that would be a public transport outcome that would really be a huge step forward.

[prometheus2704]

Why can't we just finish Gawler line electrification first (all the way to Gawler so all trains are electric), which was promised nearly 10 years ago!!! Upgrade and extend park and rides at major stations, and upgrade the crappy stations so people actually want to catch a train from these stations. Why has there been no mention of this? Northern suburb commuters would be rightfully p*ssed off that nothing has happened here in 10 years whilst Norwood and North Adelaide residents get a shiny new tram extension.

Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?

Then you would have all metro rail lines electrified with the exception of the Belair line. As committed to 10 years ago .... now that would be a public transport outcome that would really be a huge step forward.

Does no one understand the concept of doing multiple projects at the same time and in stages anymore?
And are you seriously suggesting that electrifying a line is more important that removing dangerous and time consuming level crossings?
As for it being a "commitment," was a guaranteed time frame ever given?

[Mr Smith]

When is the Libs going to release anything transport related... at this rate it could be another 4 years of Labor.

Whilst these tramline extensions to Norwood and North Adelaide is great news and will bring new investment to those suburbs, it would be better if the Labor Government committed to completing one project first (railway electrification) before embarking on multiple others. It seems so odd to spend money on the Bowden Junction, station upgrades and an extension to Port Adelaide yet no plans on electrifying the line. Maybe that's the next election pledge?

Totally agree. Why can't we just finish Gawler line electrification first (all the way to Gawler so all trains are electric), which was promised nearly 10 years ago!!! Upgrade and extend park and rides at major stations, and upgrade the crappy stations so people actually want to catch a train from these stations. Why has there been no mention of this? Northern suburb commuters would be rightfully p*ssed off that nothing has happened here in 10 years whilst Norwood and North Adelaide residents get a shiny new tram extension.

Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?

Then you would have all metro rail lines electrified with the exception of the Belair line. As committed to 10 years ago .... now that would be a public transport outcome that would really be a huge step forward.

This is simply a symptom of politics. The ALP don't really have to do anything in the northern suburbs because it's rock solid Labor - that's the real reason you are getting shafted. Seaford was built first because there were seats out that way that were marginal, despite the Elizabeth line carrying more traffic.
Ergo these mickey mouse tram extensions. Pure politics. The ALP think they can potentially pick up Norwood and Adelaide and so are throwing some goodies out in those electorates.

Unfortunately for you champ you don't live in a marginal seat.

[rubberman]

When is the Libs going to release anything transport related... at this rate it could be another 4 years of Labor.

Whilst these tramline extensions to Norwood and North Adelaide is great news and will bring new investment to those suburbs, it would be better if the Labor Government committed to completing one project first (railway electrification) before embarking on multiple others. It seems so odd to spend money on the Bowden Junction, station upgrades and an extension to Port Adelaide yet no plans on electrifying the line. Maybe that's the next election pledge?

Totally agree. Why can't we just finish Gawler line electrification first (all the way to Gawler so all trains are electric), which was promised nearly 10 years ago!!! Upgrade and extend park and rides at major stations, and upgrade the crappy stations so people actually want to catch a train from these stations. Why has there been no mention of this? Northern suburb commuters would be rightfully p*ssed off that nothing has happened here in 10 years whilst Norwood and North Adelaide residents get a shiny new tram extension.

Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?

Then you would have all metro rail lines electrified with the exception of the Belair line. As committed to 10 years ago .... now that would be a public transport outcome that would really be a huge step forward.

This is simply a symptom of politics. The ALP don't really have to do anything in the northern suburbs because it's rock solid Labor - that's the real reason you are getting shafted. Seaford was built first because there were seats out that way that were marginal, despite the Elizabeth line carrying more traffic.
Ergo these mickey mouse tram extensions. Pure politics. The ALP think they can potentially pick up Norwood and Adelaide and so are throwing some goodies out in those electorates.

Unfortunately for you champ you don't live in a marginal seat.

The government has completely relaid the rail system. Has done grade separation at Bowden and South of Goodwood, extended and electrified to Seaford. It is promising to reopen Port Dock, extend to Flinders Uni, and continue the electrification Northwards. But a couple of pissy little tram extensions costing a fraction of all that, and people complain.

Well, Marshall is promising nothing, Xenophon is matching that, and I believe they will deliver on their promises. So, when there's no Port Dock, no further level crossing reductions, no further electrification, no extension to Flinders Uni, I hope people will be really satisfied that at least there's no tiddly tram extensions.

Seriously. A couple of short tram extensions is getting people worked up, while the heavy rail has bloody drained the coffers...and even that's not enough?

[Mr Smith]

Totally agree. Why can't we just finish Gawler line electrification first (all the way to Gawler so all trains are electric), which was promised nearly 10 years ago!!! Upgrade and extend park and rides at major stations, and upgrade the crappy stations so people actually want to catch a train from these stations. Why has there been no mention of this? Northern suburb commuters would be rightfully p*ssed off that nothing has happened here in 10 years whilst Norwood and North Adelaide residents get a shiny new tram extension.

Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?

Then you would have all metro rail lines electrified with the exception of the Belair line. As committed to 10 years ago .... now that would be a public transport outcome that would really be a huge step forward.

This is simply a symptom of politics. The ALP don't really have to do anything in the northern suburbs because it's rock solid Labor - that's the real reason you are getting shafted. Seaford was built first because there were seats out that way that were marginal, despite the Elizabeth line carrying more traffic.
Ergo these mickey mouse tram extensions. Pure politics. The ALP think they can potentially pick up Norwood and Adelaide and so are throwing some goodies out in those electorates.

Unfortunately for you champ you don't live in a marginal seat.

The government has completely relaid the rail system. Has done grade separation at Bowden and South of Goodwood, extended and electrified to Seaford. It is promising to reopen Port Dock, extend to Flinders Uni, and continue the electrification Northwards. But a couple of pissy little tram extensions costing a fraction of all that, and people complain.

Well, Marshall is promising nothing, Xenophon is matching that, and I believe they will deliver on their promises. So, when there's no Port Dock, no further level crossing reductions, no further electrification, no extension to Flinders Uni, I hope people will be really satisfied that at least there's no tiddly tram extensions.

Seriously. A couple of short tram extensions is getting people worked up, while the heavy rail has bloody drained the coffers...and even that's not enough?

I think you are missing the central point here Mr Rubberman, to wit, these projects are not done in order of need or priority but purely out of cynical political expediency.

[kenget]

I think you are missing the central point here Mr Rubberman, to wit, these projects are not done in order of need or priority but purely out of cynical political expediency.

Well actually if you want to blame anyone, blame the Abbott government. They are the ones who withdrew funding after the Queensland floods. The SA government has since received funding approval for the Gawler line as per the announcement in January.

[shiftaling]

Was it federal Labor that proposed an infrastructure prioritisation committee at arms length from government?

[SBD]

[...]
Further, with the $1.3 billion being spent on level crossing removal, why couldn't we electrify the Outer Harbor line instead (clearly Labor don't intend extending the tram out there anymore) and also upgrade the crappy stations? You could even create a new spur line to West Lakes (single track in West Lakes Blvd median) if you wanted to as well. Maybe jettison the Grange line at this point?
[...]

West lakes Boulevard is partly on the alignment of the former Hendon railway line, so putting a railway there would (in part) be restoring an old one, not creating a new one It transported workers and munitions in and out of the factories there during World War II. The factories were converted to other purposes after the war, and the line stopped carrying passengers around 1980.

[rubberman]

This is simply a symptom of politics. The ALP don't really have to do anything in the northern suburbs because it's rock solid Labor - that's the real reason you are getting shafted. Seaford was built first because there were seats out that way that were marginal, despite the Elizabeth line carrying more traffic.
Ergo these mickey mouse tram extensions. Pure politics. The ALP think they can potentially pick up Norwood and Adelaide and so are throwing some goodies out in those electorates.

Unfortunately for you champ you don't live in a marginal seat.

The government has completely relaid the rail system. Has done grade separation at Bowden and South of Goodwood, extended and electrified to Seaford. It is promising to reopen Port Dock, extend to Flinders Uni, and continue the electrification Northwards. But a couple of pissy little tram extensions costing a fraction of all that, and people complain.

Well, Marshall is promising nothing, Xenophon is matching that, and I believe they will deliver on their promises. So, when there's no Port Dock, no further level crossing reductions, no further electrification, no extension to Flinders Uni, I hope people will be really satisfied that at least there's no tiddly tram extensions.

Seriously. A couple of short tram extensions is getting people worked up, while the heavy rail has bloody drained the coffers...and even that's not enough?

I think you are missing the central point here Mr Rubberman, to wit, these projects are not done in order of need or priority but purely out of cynical political expediency.

I would have thought the central point in the middle of an election campaign is the choice voters have between the policies of the parties.

The central point is a choice:

Port Dock, Flinders Uni Extension, partial electrification of the Gawler line, two tram extensions on the one hand, and precisely zero on the other.

That's the central point. Choose one. If you think the Liberal and Xenophon alternative is better, vote for them, if you want the Labor alternative, vote for them. Some mythical better alternative that no political party is offering? How is that the central point of an election process?

[shiftaling]

Sorry I know this is off topic but is there any info in any of the threads about the Flinders Uni proposal mentioned above? Or is this referring to the extension from Tonsley to FMC?

[rubberman]

The south lane on North Terrace now has copper down to the East End. Photos were underwhelming.

I was referring to the Tonsley Extension. ..

[Norman]

The south lane on North Terrace now has copper down to the East End. Photos were underwhelming.

I was referring to the Tonsley Extension. ..

I just went past. Pretty sure it was the northern, East-bound lane?

The liberals haven't released their transport policy yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if a tram to North Adelaide was also included in their plan.

[Waewick]

I can't see how people wouldn't be cynical.

both extensions are part of a greater extension, why not do one properly rather than doing it in this vote getting shot gun approach? like many you can only assume it is because it isn't something that has been planned (as much as they would like to tell us)

I want a tram network as much as any body but two spur of the moment election promises that may or may not happen don't seem to be the way to sell it.

[rubberman]

Hi Waewick,

Politicians deserve all the cynicism we can pour on them: Turnbull and the NBN, Barnaby Joyce, enough said, Trump, words fail me. Apparently his latest is that he would have run towards the Forida shooter to help - the guy whose "bone spurs" stopped him serving in Vietnam.

However, the fact is that there will be no tram extensions of any kind, nor train extensions/electrification if the Liberals or Xenophon form government. Labor has no choice but to campaign hard in marginal seats.

So, does Labor come up with some scheme that pleases everybody (good luck with that), but loses the election, and NOTHING gets built, or do they try to win the marginal electorates?

Having said all that, if Labor loses on this set of promises, there's almost no chance they will repeat a losing offer in 2022. So, if Labor loses now, you might see them target other areas in 2022, rather than trams and trains which lost the election in 2018.

If Labor loses this, there's no chance of tram or train extensions till after 2026 or later.

That's the choice.

Of course, if Xenophon or the Liberals come up with something better in the next two weeks, I am happy, more than happy to eat my words and support them.

Tell you what, if the Liberals or Xenophon come up with a better policy, I will go to the metro electorate of your choice on election day, and hand out how to vote cards for them, with confirmatory photos pm'ed to you. Fair?

[rubberman]

The south lane on North Terrace now has copper down to the East End. Photos were underwhelming.

I was referring to the Tonsley Extension. ..

I just went past. Pretty sure it was the northern, East-bound lane?

Yer right. My bad.