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Part of the issue is that the bus services are not well co-ordinated with the train system. If it were properly integrated, it would be possible to close many of the intermdiate smaller stations without leaving locals without transport, with buses feeding the commuters from the catchment areas around the smaller stations into larger centralised stations such as Salisbury, Mawson, Oaklands etc. Trains should not be used for short stopping journeys...that is the role of buses. If we want a short stopping metro style system, it will be necessary to build far more high density housing, services employment and retail adjacent to all stations in the system. Cant have it both ways. The good folk of Millswood love their new local train station but dont love the idea of high density along their section of the track...a classic Adelaide conundrum. Trains on commuter systems such as Adelaides are best suited to moving large numbers, over long distances, rapidly. this is not currently the case in any respect.

claybro wrote:Part of the issue is that the bus services are not well co-ordinated with the train system. If it were properly integrated, it would be possible to close many of the intermdiate smaller stations without leaving locals without transport, with buses feeding the commuters from the catchment areas around the smaller stations into larger centralised stations such as Salisbury, Mawson, Oaklands etc. Trains should not be used for short stopping journeys...that is the role of buses. If we want a short stopping metro style system, it will be necessary to build far more high density housing, services employment and retail adjacent to all stations in the system. Cant have it both ways. The good folk of Millswood love their new local train station but dont love the idea of high density along their section of the track...a classic Adelaide conundrum. Trains on commuter systems such as Adelaides are best suited to moving large numbers, over long distances, rapidly. this is not currently the case in any respect.

Agree 110%. MATS Plan got it right recommending that Adelaide's train stations be spaced approx 1.5-2.0 kms apart, to achieve just exactly that.

[Shuz] wrote:

claybro wrote:Part of the issue is that the bus services are not well co-ordinated with the train system. If it were properly integrated, it would be possible to close many of the intermdiate smaller stations without leaving locals without transport, with buses feeding the commuters from the catchment areas around the smaller stations into larger centralised stations such as Salisbury, Mawson, Oaklands etc. Trains should not be used for short stopping journeys...that is the role of buses. If we want a short stopping metro style system, it will be necessary to build far more high density housing, services employment and retail adjacent to all stations in the system. Cant have it both ways. The good folk of Millswood love their new local train station but dont love the idea of high density along their section of the track...a classic Adelaide conundrum. Trains on commuter systems such as Adelaides are best suited to moving large numbers, over long distances, rapidly. this is not currently the case in any respect.

Agree 110%. MATS Plan got it right recommending that Adelaide's train stations be spaced approx 1.5-2.0 kms apart, to achieve just exactly that.

I used to be a big fan of the MATS Plan but that there is - in hindsight - one of the only things it got right.

ChillyPhilly wrote:

[Shuz] wrote:

claybro wrote:Part of the issue is that the bus services are not well co-ordinated with the train system. If it were properly integrated, it would be possible to close many of the intermdiate smaller stations without leaving locals without transport, with buses feeding the commuters from the catchment areas around the smaller stations into larger centralised stations such as Salisbury, Mawson, Oaklands etc. Trains should not be used for short stopping journeys...that is the role of buses. If we want a short stopping metro style system, it will be necessary to build far more high density housing, services employment and retail adjacent to all stations in the system. Cant have it both ways. The good folk of Millswood love their new local train station but dont love the idea of high density along their section of the track...a classic Adelaide conundrum. Trains on commuter systems such as Adelaides are best suited to moving large numbers, over long distances, rapidly. this is not currently the case in any respect.

Agree 110%. MATS Plan got it right recommending that Adelaide's train stations be spaced approx 1.5-2.0 kms apart, to achieve just exactly that.

I used to be a big fan of the MATS Plan but that there is - in hindsight - one of the only things it got right.

MATS plan or no MATS plan, wouldn't make a difference.
Lack of foresight and vision and political ineptness would still plague this state.

45min delays yesterday, and 30min delays today..



Adelaide Metro and DPTI have no excuses with such a small and basic rail system, it's just 3 lines and 3 single track branches, and all recently rebuilt after years of disruption. We seem to have suffered months of replacement buses for minimal benefit, trains still run very slowly and often run late, very late in the case of today and yesterday, and the ride is still very rough compared to new lines over in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc..

Adelaide's train network is the most useless train system in the country. Let's use two carriages for busy peak periods and continue to have hourly frequency at night (even during the festival season).

Though I guess it's more important to waste a serious amount of taxpayers money on fancy advertising and officers to catch a handful of fair invaders and not improving the network for the good people of Adelaide who use the trains daily.

ffs

crawf wrote:Adelaide's train network is the most useless train system in the country. Let's use two carriages for busy peak periods and continue to have hourly frequency at night (even during the festival season).

Though I guess it's more important to waste a serious amount of taxpayers money on fancy advertising and officers to catch a handful of fair invaders and not improving the network for the good people of Adelaide who use the trains daily.

ffs

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there. Fare evasion is a serious problem in Adelaide and has cost this state roughly $13-21m annually. The cost of the officers and advertising would be paid for by the return in revenue from stopping evaders + fines for those who evade... If anything, they should increase the fine for evaders.

Well crawf was pretty spot on about about the two carriages in peak, and the hourly frequency on weekends and nights. I've lived in Blackwood for over a year and have never seen a train over two carriages. The fare evasion is an interesting one, I've noticed most inspectors are on the Belair line, it's pretty lazy, maybe they should try harder and actually try to tackle the trouble spots instead of just being lazy.
It's a joke how a train and go from a 7.5 min frequency on the Seaford line in peak to every hour only an hour or so later.

Torrens_5022 wrote:Well crawf was pretty spot on about about the two carriages in peak, and the hourly frequency on weekends and nights. I've lived in Blackwood for over a year and have never seen a train over two carriages. The fare evasion is an interesting one, I've noticed most inspectors are on the Belair line, it's pretty lazy, maybe they should try harder and actually try to tackle the trouble spots instead of just being lazy.
It's a joke how a train and go from a 7.5 min frequency on the Seaford line in peak to every hour only an hour or so later.

On the Belair line there are two restrictions to train length now that all peak hour trains run to/from Belair with no Blackwood workings. One is the length of Pinera platform - 2 car. The other is the current timetable needs to stable cars at Belair after the evening peak since there are a limited number of return paths; the Belair compound has a capacity of ~8 cars.

The remaining 3 DEMU workings in the peak on the Seaford line are either 2 or sometimes 3 car. Diesel workings on Tonsley are either 2 or later in peak 1 car.

Today in the evening peak on the Gawler line the 3 express workings were 2 x 4 car Jumbos and and 1 x 3 car DEMU. Between the 1553 and 1753 ex Adel the other workings were 1 x 3 car Jumbo, 4 x 3 car DEMU and 4 X 2 car DEMU. The 2 cars were the 1553, 1623 and then the 1708 and 1723 which closely follow expresses.

On the Outer Harbor line there seem at present to be a mixture of 2 and 3 car consists.

When I have passed Dry Creek depot recently the yard has generally empty once the peak is under way, which suggests there are not any spare units.

About half of the Jumbos (14 of 29 cars) have been withdrawn. 14 EMUs (42 cars) are now in service and have released DEMUs for other lines. 2 more EMUs are being commissioned and tested, and in the next 2-3 months the remaining peak diesel workings should be displaced.

Funny how the Liberals complain about Gawler line not being electrified, when it was the Federal Liberals who cut all funding for the project literally 24hrs after the state govt said work would resume..



I just wish they'd get on with it tho, putting it off another 2-3 years is not good enough. Auckland, Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne all electrified their rail systems in 4-6 years FFS!

Wingard should've stuck to hosting D-grade football shows on Channel 10. Really out of his depth in politics.

Went to the crows game on Sunday, noticed that all trains on the way home were 6 car sets.

It was my first adelaide oval game this year, but I have a gut feeling this may have been the first time that they did the 6 car thing.

it worked really well - some platforms can't handle 6 cars and the driver announced to use the front 5 cars only on those platforms. Obviously the doors in the 6th car were locked but there was lots of eyes rolling etc from the crowds on the train who must have assumed that people would fall off/out of the train from the last car.

muzzamo wrote:Went to the crows game on Sunday, noticed that all trains on the way home were 6 car sets.

It was my first adelaide oval game this year, but I have a gut feeling this may have been the first time that they did the 6 car thing.

it worked really well - some platforms can't handle 6 cars and the driver announced to use the front 5 cars only on those platforms. Obviously the doors in the 6th car were locked but there was lots of eyes rolling etc from the crowds on the train who must have assumed that people would fall off/out of the train from the last car.

On top of that, I just happened to be catching a tram home (from Rundle Mall to Entertainment Centre) at the time the crowd hit, and there were trams running in both directions at less than 5min intervals. So obviously more frequent running isn't limited by the number of trams or concerns about blocking up intersections of level crossings.

I want to reply to the last post but Instead of straying off topic I will post in the 'Trams" thread

They're now putting up boundary fencing for the NRAH adjacent the rail corridor. It appears to me that they've continued to leave sufficient space between the new boundary fence and the existing pair of rail tracks for the Seaford Line. Could it be possible this space will accommodate a continuation of the rail siding which is currently being used to stable the electric trains for the Seaford line?

Having said that, it also appears to me that there is enough room under the Port Road Bridge for seven tracks (which can still be seen on Google Maps) when there is currently only six active lines. Surely there would be a need in future to maintain a reservation to accomodate for a third track on the Seaford / Tonsley lines? One would hope so especially if there is possible opportunities in future for the extension of both lines to Aldinga and FMC / Flinders University respectively.