Sensational-Adelaide.com

cruel_world00 wrote:Could someone please explain to me exactly what these people would like done?

They want compensation for the loss of trade. I think it's a reasonable request and would expect the same if I was running a business there - either money to help offset the loss of trade for the duration of the project or relocation assistance.

Here in Brisbane, the traders on Albert Street received compensation for loss of trade from the state government when the street was dug up to build the new bus tunnel, even though there was still pedestrian access to the shops.

Bulldozer wrote:

cruel_world00 wrote:Could someone please explain to me exactly what these people would like done?

They want compensation for the loss of trade. I think it's a reasonable request and would expect the same if I was running a business there - either money to help offset the loss of trade for the duration of the project or relocation assistance.

Here in Brisbane, the traders on Albert Street received compensation for loss of trade from the state government when the street was dug up to build the new bus tunnel, even though there was still pedestrian access to the shops.

That's fair enough.

I thought they were opposed to the actual underpass or something. I didn't realise they hadn't received any help or compensation.

drsmith wrote:Given the cost of ultimately upgrading South Road to a free flowing expressway and the issues regarding access, have alternative routes for a north/south expressway been considered in recent years ?

Dont think they have really given it much thought.

They should really go all out and build a 6-8 lane freeways using the rail corridors and while
there at it they should underground the rail lines with new tracks, standardisation,
electrification and very fast rolling stock 130-160km/hr making public transport very
tempting to commuters.

How can you fit 6-8 lanes in a rail corridor?

Dr Smith, I am sure alternatives have been looked at. In the end it comes down to what is affordable. House prices in Adelaide have got so high that the cost of compulsory aquisition for a freeway is simply not affordable, unless we forgo every other piece of infrastructure, including public transport. That scenario is more unsatisfactory that the one we are living with, ie widenning South Road and making it as much of a controlled access road as possible without being a freeway.

No doubt somebody will be tempted to jump in here and shout "TOLLWAY!"

As far as I can see, the tollways built in Melbourne and Sydney did not involve compulsory aquisition of property all along the routes, as there were corridors included in the original planning. Not much we can do about that in the case of South Road. Now those tollways interstate are going to take decades to pay for themselves. A North-South Tollway in Adelaide would take a century, unless the tolls were exhorbitant, in which case traffic will not be as much as desired, clogging up other arterial roads and making the tollway take even longer to pay for itself.

rhino wrote:How can you fit 6-8 lanes in a rail corridor?

Some parts have spare land now, ie Keswick, Islington, Mawson Lakes,
Parafield, Salisbury, Elizabeth etc. Down south on some parts
ie Tonsley Line and parts of the Norlunga Line (from Tonsley) upto
say Goodwood junction may require the purchase of propertes etc.
But it is do-able.

Problem with people like you is that you will come back and say
its too expensive. Well if they had built the original MAT's Plan
back in the late 1970's it would have cost $350 million now it
would cost $5 billion in another 20 years time it will cost $25-50
billion.

Dont have the money you say... Well with truck congestion expected
to increase by at least 50% in the next decade not to mention
extra cars etc, our network wont cope and we will be paying through
the nose for higher priced goods due to increased transport costs...
In the end you will pay for roads now or pay for not having the
roads through increased prices....

Problem with our Government is that their are no politicians with
the balls to step up and do the job, and say this is what is needed
for Adelaide's future prosperity and the sooner we build it the
less costly it will be.

6 lanes could fit in a rail corridor. What would not fit is on/off ramps, and people just wouldnt like to have a 6-lane noise hazard right up against their backyards. Ever notice in the eastern cities thats why they have a bit of green space between the road and peoples backyards, lined with soundproof walling?

South Road is a shambles, with minimal land acquisition, you could fit a 3 lane northbound corridor above ground (with 1x1 controlled acess roads either side), and a 3 lane southbound corridor underground with effective on/off ramps at major intersections. In the Tonsley and Islington areas, it would be possible to have the road 3x3 either side above ground. From Sturt Rd to Torrens Rd, the tunnel would have to be in place.

Cost? I'd say $2.5 billion. Maybe $3 billion if extra land acqusition is needed for space for on/off ramps.

Whatever we spend on infrastructure now will save money in the long run - there is no denying that. However, there are a lot of projects needed, and a north-south freeway through the suburbs will cost so much that nothing else will be able to get done, and there are other things that need doing.

Selling off the land from the MATS plan was a huge mistake, and I don't think anyone will deny that, but at this point in time you can't just say "Well buy back it again", and so you do what you can. Do you know what the plans are for the stretch of South Road through Regency Park? There is a lot of room there, perhaps we will see a freeway-standard road from Regency Road to the Port River Expressway in the forseeable future. Similarly, the stretch from Ayeliffes Road to the Southern Expressway could become a freeway-standard road in the future - there are a few options. Bit by bit it will get done. Be patient, other works have to get done concurrently.

rhino wrote:Whatever we spend on infrastructure now will save money in the long run - there is no denying that. However, there are a lot of projects needed, and a north-south freeway through the suburbs will cost so much that nothing else will be able to get done, and there are other things that need doing.

An unfortunate reality.

One thing I'm suprised with regarding the intersection upgrades is the preference for underpasses. I can understand to some extent with nearby residential or social precincts (visible amenity and noise) but a significant portion of the south road corridor is industrial or commercial.

I note a brief discussion here on this very issue,

http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... p?=&p=4081

Since then however the cost of the Anzac Highway underpass has blown out to $140 million as of December 2006,

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 02,00.html

Perhaps overpasses should be revisited in light or rapidly esclating costs. I would have thought that structures similar to the South Road/Cross Road overpass would do the job just as well and cost much less.

Me myself personally i think tunnel technology is the way to go. Its inovative , futuristic looking, the technology and feasability is there, it's not that intrusive to visualise, and we can incorporate a train subway system with the plan.
I see Adelaide heading towards that direction, we'll get better as we build more and it will be kind of unique to Adelaide.

I'm very curious as to how the tunnel under Port Road and the railway line is to be constructed. Looking at the rendered image, it's directly under the existing South Road allignment.

I can't see how that section of South Road can be open to traffic during construction if the tunnel is constructed by cut and cover.

A specialised tunnel boring machine was used to bore the two railway tunnels under the Perth CBD for the Perth to Mandurah railway, but the width of each tunnel is such that it only caters for one railway track.

Between Grange and Port Road they might make a detour along Grange Road then left onto Port Road, then back onto South Road. There is enough room in the centre of Port Road to redirect traffic into the middle of the road during construction on each side. South Road between Port and Torrens Road may be detoured through Port Road -> Kilkenny Road -> Regency Road -> Days Road -> South Road, or via the City Bypass, ie Park Terrace.

Or maybe use James Congdon Drive and then the City Bypass.

We'll have to see.

I don't understand the current fetish for tunnels/underpasses either. I like the view from the top of the Emerson Crossing overpass and would like to see the view from these underpass locations. Cross Road could be dug under the rail line and overpass though.

I'd also like to see right-turn flyovers built from South Road onto Anzac Hwy so that there's a smooth flow of traffic and no lights, but then I remember that Adelaide drivers dont know what merging is.

Perhaps if government set a target of acquiring one property on the side of South Road per week it would have enough to build a stage every year? If the properties were bulldozed or allowed to become squats as they were acquired it could help to drive down prices of the properties whose owners won't sell

I think one of the reasons for tunnelling instead of bridging is noise. Sure, most of the properties along South Road are businesses, but one layer back it becomes residential. As South Road is a major freight route, it's going to be noisy, and noise barriers on bridges will impact visually, and not in a good way.

Having said that, I guess there is also the option being left open for a bridge on Anzac Highway, over the South Road intersection, making it also a straight-through drive, with the 'interchange' at ground level between the bridge and the tunnel. An Anzac Highway bridge would be dearer than a South Road Bridge, but a South Road tunnel would be cheaper than an Anzac Highway tunnel.

That would be cool.

drsmith wrote:I'm very curious as to how the tunnel under Port Road and the railway line is to be constructed. Looking at the rendered image, it's directly under the existing South Road allignment.

I can't see how that section of South Road can be open to traffic during construction if the tunnel is constructed by cut and cover.

A specialised tunnel boring machine was used to bore the two railway tunnels under the Perth CBD for the Perth to Mandurah railway, but the width of each tunnel is such that it only caters for one railway track.

The northern end of the tunnel will end in an upgraded section of South Road (between Port Road and Torrens Road), which is being slightly widened and altered from it's current setup. I am not sure what is happening at the southern end of the tunnel, but there may be some widening and upgrading works that may require the acquisition of the front yards of some properties (like has occurred on Portrush Road several years ago).

If anyone has observed how the Eastern Distributor was constructed in Sydney, they encountered similar space issues to those that exist on South Road. The freeway was squeezed into a tiny space in the middle of an existing road no wider than South Road in the middle of the Moore Park area.

The retaining wall along the western side of the underpass is well and truly in the advanced stages of construction and there is some excavation going on.