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Dog · #271 Post by **Dog** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:47 pm

Another day another broken promise! Oops "Lost Currency" in coalition speak

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Dog · #272 Post by **Dog** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:16 pm

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Let's blame the Dog!

Dog · #273 Post by **Dog** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:46 pm

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Waewick · #274 Post by **Waewick** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:01 am

I really don't have a problem with the NBN finally being honest with the public, we were fed so much bullshit from them and both parties

sadly the pro NBN people haven't seemed to have cottoned onto the fact that both parties have got it so damn wrong.

#275 Post by **monotonehell** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:09 am

Waewick wrote:I really don't have a problem with the NBN finally being honest with the public, we were fed so much bullshit from them and both parties

sadly the pro NBN people haven't seemed to have cottoned onto the fact that both parties have got it so damn wrong.

I too would welcome some honesty and politics free, ideology free, rational approach to all this. Problem is the recently released report is not honest, it uses accounting tricks to over/understate its figures and leaves out several important and costly points.

The problem was Labour dug themselves too deep to be completely honest about the delays, but at least they were moving forward. The problem now is the Coalition have dug themselves in way too deep with their continuous lies, I don't think they ever had any intention of building this thing.

EDIT: More rubbery figures. This time with the MYEFO. Shane Oliver (AMP Capital's chief economist) has come out saying that the figures are fudged...

About half of this year's budget deterioration, and almost all of 2016-17's descent from a forecast $8 billion surplus to a $14 billion deficit, are due to so-called "parameter variations".

Mr Hockey says this is due to a softening economy. But AMP Capital Investors chief economist Shane Oliver says if anything, the economy has improved slightly since August's pre-election fiscal outlook.

"Not much has really changed since August in terms of the economic outlook, but we have seen, quote, 'a significant downgrade to the growth assumptions which affects federal government revenue'," he said.

"So it may well be the case that by the time we get to the May budget that those numbers have become a bit more optimistic again and therefore the budget projections probably won't be quite as bleak."

Mr Oliver says it's likely some politics are at play in the downgraded forecasts.

"I think what we are seeing in this statement is a degree of politics; the government wanting to paint things as bad as they can such that they can then turn it around, and obviously that turnaround story might start with the May budget."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-17/j ... ls/5162512

Waewick · #276 Post by **Waewick** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:02 am

I think the big problem with politics is the need of politicians to simplify complex issues for the media and average Punter.

This is turn creates confusion and misunderstanding which ultimately costs the politician.

Aidan · #277 Post by **Aidan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:33 pm

In yesterdays SMH there was a letter (from Anthony Ryan of Carlingford) that I think is worth quoting in full here:

Tony Abbott is no doubt aware of the apocryphal tale about the advice given by the leader of the Soviet Union, Nikita Khrushchev, to his successor Leonid Brezhnev (''Tony Abbott says forecast deficit of more than $40 billion not his government's fault'', smh.com.au, December 16).

As the story goes, he gave him two letters to open in specific order when inevitable problems arose. Sure enough things started to go wrong so he opened the first letter which advised him to blame everything upon his predecessor. He did this and things settled down for a while but then things deteriorated further so he opened the second letter. The advice therein was to sit down and write two letters.

Abbott is well into the advice given in the first letter and he may get to write two of his own letters long before he would have planned.

IMO the sensible thing for Labor to do would be to focus on attacking Malcolm Turnbull for a while.

#278 Post by **monotonehell** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:12 pm

Waewick wrote:I think the big problem with politics is the need of politicians to simplify complex issues for the media and average Punter.

This is turn creates confusion and misunderstanding which ultimately costs the politician.

Take that back a step: I think the big problem with politics is the need to simplify complex issues for politicians. They should rely on non-partisan expert advice more than try to understand everything about everything, or worse what Abbott and friends seem to be doing, not bothering to understand the complexity of an issue while proceeding based on ideology. The whole World's this way, we more rational thought and pragmatism, we've pursued various ideologies for too long.

Aidan wrote:...The advice therein was to sit down and write two letters.

IMO the sensible thing for Labor to do would be to focus on attacking Malcolm Turnbull for a while.

I like the story, but I object to your use of the word "sensible" in this context. Can I interest you in the phrase "politically expedient" instead?

Waewick · #279 Post by **Waewick** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:03 pm

monotonehell wrote:
Waewick wrote:I think the big problem with politics is the need of politicians to simplify complex issues for the media and average Punter.

This is turn creates confusion and misunderstanding which ultimately costs the politician.
Take that back a step: I think the big problem with politics is the need to simplify complex issues for politicians. They should rely on non-partisan expert advice more than try to understand everything about everything, or worse what Abbott and friends seem to be doing, not bothering to understand the complexity of an issue while proceeding based on ideology. The whole World's this way, we more rational thought and pragmatism, we've pursued various ideologies for too long.

Aidan wrote:...The advice therein was to sit down and write two letters.

IMO the sensible thing for Labor to do would be to focus on attacking Malcolm Turnbull for a while.
I like the story, but I object to your use of the word "sensible" in this context. Can I interest you in the phrase "politically expedient" instead?

I disagree, I have no doubt the bulk of today's politicians would have a good grasp on what they are talking about as they have access to the required information.

Not saying there wouldn't be people that know more, just the Politician would know more than the average punter

#280 Post by **Norman** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Knowing is one thing, understanding and applying that knowledge is something entirely different.

Waewick · #281 Post by **Waewick** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Tell you what the unions are a bit rich. Whilst it isn't the whole story they are still share some of the responsibility for the demise of Holden.

But to be making more demands is outrageous. There isn't many other people I know with a guaranteed job for the next 3 to 4 years with a redundancy pay out at the end.

I had to laugh when I heard a union rep tell the radio that Abbott had shut down a viable industry.

Waewick · #282 Post by **Waewick** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:20 pm

Norman wrote:Knowing is one thing, understanding and applying that knowledge is something entirely different.

Yes that is true.

claybro · #283 Post by **claybro** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:42 pm

Aidan wrote:IMO the sensible thing for Labor to do would be to focus on attacking Malcolm Turnbull for a while.

Here's a sensible thing , instead of attacking a person/and or personality, how about explaining to us voters how they will handle things better/differntly. I think Austrlians are wholeheartedly sick of personal politicing from both sides.

Aidan · #284 Post by **Aidan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:22 pm

claybro wrote:
Aidan wrote:IMO the sensible thing for Labor to do would be to focus on attacking Malcolm Turnbull for a while.
Here's a sensible thing , instead of attacking a person/and or personality, how about explaining to us voters how they will handle things better/differntly. I think Austrlians are wholeheartedly sick of personal politicing from both sides.

Labor tried that before the election. It didn't work.

Meanwhile Abbott is almost too easy a target, and his main rival Turnbull remains popular despite what he's doing to the NBN. I think it's time to put the boot in!

I'm not suggesting attacking anyone's personality. Politicians shouldn't do that. Nor IMO does the newspapers, though I can't imagine the Murdoch press ceasing to do so.

Dog · #285 Post by **Dog** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:37 am

Two more boats and 167 boat people this week, 22 boats and 1083 people since operation Sovereign borders, $1.2bn over budget already. No boats turned back, no fishing boats purchased, "cap on protection visas quietly removed!"

Another broken promise just no media coverage.

IMMIGRATION Minister Scott Morrison has revoked a cap on protection visas for asylum-seekers after restricting eligibility to those who arrive "lawfully" in the country.

The revocation of the Migration Act regulation - revealed in a brief note on the Attorney-General department's law website - took effect yesterday, and overturns the cap on protection "Class XA" visas for the 2013-14 financial year."

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