News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Goodsy]

I stand corrected re the exact year Rhino, but as a South Australian, I am for more concerned with the state of inertia that has existed for the last 3 decades regarding infrastructure including regional road, rail and industrial development in this state, than the actual year Adelaide plunged from 3rd to 5th in the capital city stakes. Our mid sized rivals steamed ahead, without fear, bringing grand plans to fruition. High speed rail, freeways to regional centres etc. Population followed. We cancelled all of ours at some point. Was it lack of mining potential?...not so. SA is endowed with as many minerals as QLD and WA. State Bank collapse?....WA and QLD were also rocked by their share of financial scandals. Recent developments re small rail and road extensions while welcome, are seriously lacking the grand vision of the other states, which now also share SA's financial woes, but are continuing on with a business as usual approach to their long term infrastructure plans. These small incremental improvements are too easily cancelled without being part of a structured larger plan.

Whilst it is easy to blame everything on the "SA mentality", one cannot overlook the reality that we never had a mining boom.

You just have to see the rapid decline in WA's financial performance to see that their recent spate of economic prosperity was more luck rather than due to vision or careful planning.

We never had a mining boom and we're steering clear of the east coast housing boom. SA was in the same position when the 1880s land boom burst, we should come out on top in the next few decades. It's only a matter of time before the Millennials complaining about property prices in Sydney finally realise that the same house could be bought in Adelaide for 350k

[PeFe]

I believe Brisbane overtook Adelaide in population in 1968 and Perth did the same thing in 1984.
Sorry I can not attribute sources (except for a memory that retains a lot of data...)

[Waewick]

I stand corrected re the exact year Rhino, but as a South Australian, I am for more concerned with the state of inertia that has existed for the last 3 decades regarding infrastructure including regional road, rail and industrial development in this state, than the actual year Adelaide plunged from 3rd to 5th in the capital city stakes. Our mid sized rivals steamed ahead, without fear, bringing grand plans to fruition. High speed rail, freeways to regional centres etc. Population followed. We cancelled all of ours at some point. Was it lack of mining potential?...not so. SA is endowed with as many minerals as QLD and WA. State Bank collapse?....WA and QLD were also rocked by their share of financial scandals. Recent developments re small rail and road extensions while welcome, are seriously lacking the grand vision of the other states, which now also share SA's financial woes, but are continuing on with a business as usual approach to their long term infrastructure plans. These small incremental improvements are too easily cancelled without being part of a structured larger plan.

Whilst it is easy to blame everything on the "SA mentality", one cannot overlook the reality that we never had a mining boom.

You just have to see the rapid decline in WA's financial performance to see that their recent spate of economic prosperity was more luck rather than due to vision or careful planning.

We never had a mining boom and we're steering clear of the east coast housing boom. SA was in the same position when the 1880s land boom burst, we should come out on top in the next few decades. It's only a matter of time before the Millennials complaining about property prices in Sydney finally realise that the same house could be bought in Adelaide for 350k

and what exactlty are they going to do in their $350k house?

collect welfare?

[rubberman]

and what exactlty are they going to do in their $350k house?

collect welfare?

Well, it would be good for retirees.

And also, the difference in house price would realise quite a bit of money, and probably reduce pension amounts due to the assets test. Win-win.

[Waewick]

and what exactlty are they going to do in their $350k house?

collect welfare?

Well, it would be good for retirees.

And also, the difference in house price would realise quite a bit of money, and probably reduce pension amounts due to the assets test. Win-win.

not exaclty economic drivers.

hopefully the tax incentives the Feds are looking at for business investment help and people stop focusing all their spare cash on resi property

[rhino]

and what exactlty are they going to do in their $350k house?

collect welfare?

That's what I was wondering. While cheap housing is one reason for people to migrate here, anyone seriously considering it is going to look at the employment opportunities before they make the move. Becoming a city full of retirees is not a good thing in the end.

[Norman]

People don't just look for employment opportunities. Some people come here to start businesses. We don't all have to be employees.

[claybro]

This has become a bit "derailed" from a discussion re trains. However, I guess the point I was making is that time and again it is very evident there is no actual long term plan for infrastructure including regional rail /metro rail and population growth. We missed the mining boom, because our politicians did not create an environment for exploration and encourage entrepreneurs.-The raw materials are there like in every other state.. We missed the housing boom because we missed the population boom, mainly due to perception of wealthy immigrants not wanting to move here in part because of the second rate infrastructure and perceived lack of opportunity. We need our politicians to plan for growth including regional centres for an extra 500000. The near regional centres should be connected by train and good roads to Adelaide. Yes Perth and Brisbane have suffered from the mining bust, but do not be fooled into thinking the pace of growth in development and infrastructure has slowed in those states. They have a long term road/rail and regional plan including ports and airports, and they continue to work on these largely unabated.

[rhino]

People don't just look for employment opportunities. Some people come here to start businesses. We don't all have to be employees.

Entrepreneurs are self-employed, and even they check out the opportunities before moving somewhere where the housing is cheaper. Otherwise they'd all be moving to regional centres, where housing is cheaper again

[rhino]

We missed the mining boom, because our politicians did not create an environment for exploration and encourage entrepreneurs.-The raw materials are there like in every other state..

Have you heard of the PACE (Plan for Accelerating Exploration) Initiative? We got a lot of kudos for that.
http://minerals.statedevelopment.sa.gov ... ience/pace

Yes Perth and Brisbane have suffered from the mining bust, but do not be fooled into thinking the pace of growth in development and infrastructure has slowed in those states. They have a long term road/rail and regional plan including ports and airports, and they continue to work on these largely unabated.

Western Australia have found themselves with $39billion debt and can't see any way out of it, because they thought the mining boom would go on forever and didn't plan for it ever ending: https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/ ... nt-budget/

Queensland's debt, in the 2013-14 fiscal year, was equal to 24.54 times it's Gross State Product ( http://theconversation.com/the-true-sta ... debt-36345 ) - not a position I'd want us to be in either. They have reasonable rail infrastructure, and freeways in the southeast of the state, but the Bruce Highway in the north of the state is pretty shite, and is the major connector for very large and important regional centres (Rockhampton, Mackay, Townsville, Cairns).

[Kasey771]

People don't just look for employment opportunities. Some people come here to start businesses. We don't all have to be employees.

Hard to convince people to start businesses when the running costs here are a bit steep. Electricity...business taxes, some of the most expensive in the country.

[Norman]

People don't just look for employment opportunities. Some people come here to start businesses. We don't all have to be employees.

Hard to convince people to start businesses when the running costs here are a bit steep. Electricity...business taxes, some of the most expensive in the country.

That's why the government just introduced tax cuts. And power prices are going to fall over the next few years as SA Power Networks has been told to stop gold plating the network.

[rubberman]

People don't just look for employment opportunities. Some people come here to start businesses. We don't all have to be employees.

Hard to convince people to start businesses when the running costs here are a bit steep. Electricity...business taxes, some of the most expensive in the country.

That's why the government just introduced tax cuts. And power prices are going to fall over the next few years as SA Power Networks has been told to stop gold plating the network.

Gold Plating the Network. *sigh*

A recent example.

In the nineties, the NT Power and Water Corporation was told by government that they must stop "gold plating the network: so they did.

Due to network problems and underinvestment a few years later, there wss a massine substation fault leaving swathes of the city with dodgy power for months.

"Fix it! Fix it!" Screamed everybody.

So the new Board spent up big and fixed it.

Then the bill came in.

""You're gold plating it!" Said everybody, and the Board who "fixed it" was sacked.

Trouble with that is, now anyone who has the ability to see a problem and fix it, is unlikely to do so.

But, if you think there's gold plating, cos it is, look at this site on a hot day and get a feel for whether it's gold plated.
If there's a hot day, the difference in costs reflects distribution efficiency. Gold plating would mean little difference between states, reflecting good interconnection. Big differences means the system is limited.

Note, this does impinge on electric train operating costs.

http://www.aemo.com.au

[Norman]

Hard to convince people to start businesses when the running costs here are a bit steep. Electricity...business taxes, some of the most expensive in the country.

That's why the government just introduced tax cuts. And power prices are going to fall over the next few years as SA Power Networks has been told to stop gold plating the network.

Gold Plating the Network. *sigh*

A recent example.

In the nineties, the NT Power and Water Corporation was told by government that they must stop "gold plating the network: so they did.

Due to network problems and underinvestment a few years later, there wss a massine substation fault leaving swathes of the city with dodgy power for months.

"Fix it! Fix it!" Screamed everybody.

So the new Board spent up big and fixed it.

Then the bill came in.

""You're gold plating it!" Said everybody, and the Board who "fixed it" was sacked.

Trouble with that is, now anyone who has the ability to see a problem and fix it, is unlikely to do so.

But, if you think there's gold plating, cos it is, look at this site on a hot day and get a feel for whether it's gold plated.
If there's a hot day, the difference in costs reflects distribution efficiency. Gold plating would mean little difference between states, reflecting good interconnection. Big differences means the system is limited.

Note, this does impinge on electric train operating costs.

http://www.aemo.com.au

That was the 90s. These days people are using more power-efficient products and generating their own power using solar panels and using battery storage. While I am no expert on matters regarding electricity infrastructure, I would have thought we are using less power off the grid (at least per capita) than in more recent times.

[rubberman]

True, we are using more per capita, but because of immigration, there are more capitas.

In addition, we still have to replace aging stuff. Add to that, even though there's a lot of pv panels, if the clouds come over people won't put up with rationing, they'll want to use the network.