News & Discussion: Trams

[citywatcher]

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Well, I guess after April we can expect this thread to go dead for four or so years (at the very least), it's been nice talking to you all about trams...

Nope. The Liberals will keep their promise to look at North Adelaide and part of the City Loop. Once they've looked at it, they've kept their promise. They don't have to build it.

In four years time, the Labor Party MAY look at it. However, realistically, it wasn't a vote winner, so I don't think it will come up again. Why should it?

Next point. The ALP didn’t release the business case. So cynical me says it was very very very borderline.

If that is so, the Liberals, quite properly, won't touch uneconomic tram extensions. In addition, if the business case was marginal, it would be hard for the ALP to push next time round.

My guess is that we've seen the last tram extension for at least 8 years...or more. As a tram fan, I'm sad. However, if it didn't stack up economically, as a taxpayer, I'm glad. From a democratic pov, people knew what was at stake in terms of infrastructure, and voted no. That's it.

Build it and they will come

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

[Waewick]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

[prometheus2704]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

If you want to get into analysing the results of the election, it would be best to wait for the final counts. However, a few things can be determined on the results as they stand at the moment.

The tram down the Parade played had no impact on the result. There is a .2% swing to Marshall. Statistically insignificant. One could almost make the argument that, given 16 years of Labor, that swing should have been in the realm of 3-4 percentage points and the offer of the tram prevented that from occurring.

The seat of Adelaide is a little clearer with a swing of 2.8% towards Labor, suggesting (depending on booth results) that the tram plans were a definite factor.

If we look at the state generally, Liberals had swings against them in over half of the seats that they won. Labor had swings towards them in all but 2 of the seats that they won. One of those was to an independent former Labor member.

So put simply, Labor have made inroads to winning the 2022 election

[Haso]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

If you want to get into analysing the results of the election, it would be best to wait for the final counts. However, a few things can be determined on the results as they stand at the moment.

The tram down the Parade played had no impact on the result. There is a .2% swing to Marshall. Statistically insignificant. One could almost make the argument that, given 16 years of Labor, that swing should have been in the realm of 3-4 percentage points and the offer of the tram prevented that from occurring.

The seat of Adelaide is a little clearer with a swing of 2.8% towards Labor, suggesting (depending on booth results) that the tram plans were a definite factor.

If we look at the state generally, Liberals had swings against them in over half of the seats that they won. Labor had swings towards them in all but 2 of the seats that they won. One of those was to an independent former Labor member.

So put simply, Labor have made inroads to winning the 2022 election

.
The Election postmortem will go for a while, but from my perspective, rightly or wrongly, there were some other issues more important to the voters than (our beloved) trams. We can’t simplify this election as some kind of referendum about trams even when we talk about Norwood or North Adelaide…
.

[Brucetiki]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

If you want to get into analysing the results of the election, it would be best to wait for the final counts. However, a few things can be determined on the results as they stand at the moment.

The tram down the Parade played had no impact on the result. There is a .2% swing to Marshall. Statistically insignificant. One could almost make the argument that, given 16 years of Labor, that swing should have been in the realm of 3-4 percentage points and the offer of the tram prevented that from occurring.

The seat of Adelaide is a little clearer with a swing of 2.8% towards Labor, suggesting (depending on booth results) that the tram plans were a definite factor.

If we look at the state generally, Liberals had swings against them in over half of the seats that they won. Labor had swings towards them in all but 2 of the seats that they won. One of those was to an independent former Labor member.

So put simply, Labor have made inroads to winning the 2022 election

I'd say Sanderson being a very unpopular local MP would've played a factor too. Had Sanderson not got the toffee noses in Walkerville and Gilberton to sign her pro-forma letter asking not to be shifted to Torrens, Chapley would've shat it in. As it is, she's still a good chance of pinching the seat.

[prometheus2704]

I'd say Sanderson being a very unpopular local MP would've played a factor too. Had Sanderson not got the toffee noses in Walkerville and Gilberton to sign her pro-forma letter asking not to be shifted to Torrens, Chapley would've shat it in. As it is, she's still a good chance of pinching the seat.

I missed that element of political machinations during the redistribution!

[Brucetiki]

I'd say Sanderson being a very unpopular local MP would've played a factor too. Had Sanderson not got the toffee noses in Walkerville and Gilberton to sign her pro-forma letter asking not to be shifted to Torrens, Chapley would've shat it in. As it is, she's still a good chance of pinching the seat.

I missed that element of political machinations during the redistribution!

Sanderson got them in a tizz about having to share an electorate with the northern suburbs. I take it Sanderson struggled with geography as Torrens covers the north-eastern suburbs and goes nowhere near the true northern suburbs. Also speaks volumes about Sanderson's character. Apparently moving them to Torrens would devalue their houses

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-22/a ... et/7868082

[Waewick]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

If you want to get into analysing the results of the election, it would be best to wait for the final counts. However, a few things can be determined on the results as they stand at the moment.

The tram down the Parade played had no impact on the result. There is a .2% swing to Marshall. Statistically insignificant. One could almost make the argument that, given 16 years of Labor, that swing should have been in the realm of 3-4 percentage points and the offer of the tram prevented that from occurring.

The seat of Adelaide is a little clearer with a swing of 2.8% towards Labor, suggesting (depending on booth results) that the tram plans were a definite factor.

If we look at the state generally, Liberals had swings against them in over half of the seats that they won. Labor had swings towards them in all but 2 of the seats that they won. One of those was to an independent former Labor member.

So put simply, Labor have made inroads to winning the 2022 election

Thats just a heap of Labor propaganda. Honestly im sure the libs thought they made in roads winning 55 and 53% of the overall vote based on 2PP.

This election had that many variations trying to claim some honourable win based on a broad swing overall preferences is a bit pointless.

Fact remains both parties had horrible 1st preferences, Labors just a lot worse and not enough to benefit from the SABest.

[ml69]

Let's just wait n see what gets delivered by the Liberals in the next 4 years before we judge?

For all of Labor's pro-tram and rail talk, they've delivered a 1km tram extension, minor rail station improvements and no further rail electrification in the past 4 years.

Seaford Extension
Goodwood rail junction
Torrens Rail Junction
O-Bahn tunnel (I'm still having to remind myself I need to hurry to my stop when I see the bus is at the Hackney Road, Botanic Road intersection because it's only a few minutes away, not 10 mins or more)

People in the know, had the Flinders rail extension contracts been signed?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seaford Extension was completed BEFORE the last election and was federally-funded. Likewise Goodwood and Torrens rail junctions were federally-funded, so they would have happened regardless of which party was leading SA.

Yes Obahn tunnel was a Labor initiative, sorry I forgot that one. This was probably the major PT achievement of the Weatherill Labor government (and a worthwhile achievement as well).

[Waewick]

Let's just wait n see what gets delivered by the Liberals in the next 4 years before we judge?

For all of Labor's pro-tram and rail talk, they've delivered a 1km tram extension, minor rail station improvements and no further rail electrification in the past 4 years.

Seaford Extension
Goodwood rail junction
Torrens Rail Junction
O-Bahn tunnel (I'm still having to remind myself I need to hurry to my stop when I see the bus is at the Hackney Road, Botanic Road intersection because it's only a few minutes away, not 10 mins or more)

People in the know, had the Flinders rail extension contracts been signed?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seaford Extension was completed BEFORE the last election and was federally-funded. Likewise Goodwood and Torrens rail junctions were federally-funded, so they would have happened regardless of which party was leading SA.

Yes Obahn tunnel was a Labor initiative, sorry I forgot that one. This was probably the major PT achievement of the Weatherill Labor government.

The only state things have been the trams and the obahn.

The others mentioned above are federal funded and going to happen.

Here's a question for everyone. As we are aware, the states share of federal infrastructure funding is currently at planned at around 2% for 20-21. Thats around 2 yrs and a federal election away.

The SA Libs will ask for something and both Labor and Liberal will increase it.

But for what?

[rubberman]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

All they said they would do is look at it. There's no broken promise if they don’t build it.

[Waewick]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

All they said they would do is look at it. There's no broken promise if they don’t build it.

I realise the people of SA haven't exactly demonstrated a capacity to see through spin, but it would be an interesting selling point if nothing happens.

[rubberman]

I'm not as pessimistic as you lot. They have to get elected again in 4 years.

From my read, no Tram to Norwood was a winner, but a tram to NA was popular as well am i reading that right?

I cannot see why they would blatantly not do some thing they said they would, and please dont give me that stereotypical liberal crap.

All they said they would do is look at it. There's no broken promise if they don’t build it.

I realise the people of SA haven't exactly demonstrated a capacity to see through spin, but it would be an interesting selling point if nothing happens.

Actually, since the previous government hadn't released the business case, there's a good chance that the business case is extremely thin. Or non-existent.

From a good governance point of view, there's hardly an ounce of spin required if it turns out the business case is marginal. As a life long tram fan I would be disappointed. As a taxpayer, however, I would be completely on board with a decision to not proceed if the business case wasn't there. That presupposes the analysis was sound.

However, if the Liberals look at it (promise fulfilled), and it's uneconomic, then doing the right thing is hardly spin. The only way the Liberals would get into trouble is if the business case showed that Adelink was economic, but they didn't proceed. But even then, they might be able to plead other priorities.

[Patrick_27]

However, if the Liberals look at it (promise fulfilled), and it's uneconomic, then doing the right thing is hardly spin. The only way the Liberals would get into trouble is if the business case showed that Adelink was economic, but they didn't proceed. But even then, they might be able to plead other priorities.

Yeah, but if the Libs look at the business case for ADELink and it is economic and they don't proceed, they'll simply tell us it was uneconomic and move on. We'll never know because like Labor they won't release it.

[SBD]

However, if the Liberals look at it (promise fulfilled), and it's uneconomic, then doing the right thing is hardly spin. The only way the Liberals would get into trouble is if the business case showed that Adelink was economic, but they didn't proceed. But even then, they might be able to plead other priorities.

Yeah, but if the Libs look at the business case for ADELink and it is economic and they don't proceed, they'll simply tell us it was uneconomic and move on. We'll never know because like Labor they won't release it.

If there is an extant unreleased business case demonstrating the economic benefits of proceding with the development, it would have been accessed and likely copied by the Labor people who were responsible for it until yesterday. If the new minister stood up and gave a press conference that said "we have looked at the business case which says it is uneconomic, but we won't show it to you" the content would be on the front of the next day's newspaper, provided by an "insider" from Labor.