Sensational-Adelaide.com

Posted: **Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:35 pm**

I think this discussion would be enhanced if the members who moved interstate or overseas participated and discussed the reason why they left the state and what it would take for them to return.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:28 am**

I think that instead of spending tons of money advertising changes to timetables/election voting etc etc. Governments should advertise/subliminally put in peoples heads not to be automatically opposed to everything. Its ridiculous the amount of people you mention some development to and there like "well i don't want it to happen" whys that? "because it doesn't effect me"
The amount of things that actually effect someone would be quite low compared to the amount of things that WOULDNT effect that same person.. People in general should just be culled... Retrospective abortions to all nimbys?

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:51 am**

Wayno wrote:
Edgar wrote:You guys are missing a point here.

Being able to hold world-class events means nothing. People will just come and then leave, just for the sake of attending those events.

What the state needs to do is being able to offer world class living. It is a motivation for people to migrate here and stay.

More jobs and more public amenities and facilities are just a few improvements that needs to be taken into serious consideration.
Hi Edgar, how do you define world class living? and are we doing enough in the CBD (& surrounds) with respect to public amenities? If not what should we be doing more of? There's lots of construction going on but appears to mainly be private residences and office space. There was an article in a weekend newspaper (The Australian?) where the mayor of perth is lamenting the same thing - lots of skyscrapers but no new civic buildings...

Also, seems to me that part of the problem is people visit Adelaide and say "1 million people - where are they all?" and the reality is most of us are happy in our backyards having a private bbq with close friends. This is a cultural thing and perhaps part of the reason why Adelaide is seen as being boring to foreigners who are (presumably) used to living in small apartments and hence have to socialise in public spaces. At least by having world class events in Adelaide we break our cultural trend of private entertainment

Wayno, what crawf and Will had said is what I wanted to point out. Speaking with my honest experience of what most Malaysian migrants have in mind.

Think Perth, you think of retirement.

Think Sydney, you think of your child's education.

Think Melbourne, you think of a forward-going city with lots of excitement

Think Queensland, you think of Gold Coast and the live entertainments.

Think Adelaide, oh well, they don't think much of it.

Seriously, Adelaide is so badly sold in the Asian region. If not because Penang in Malaysia is the sister city and that the Chief Minister of Sarawak (one of the state in Malaysia) is closely associated with Adelaide because his wife is from Adelaide, and he studied in Adelaide U during his early days, and that Hilton is completely owned by him and also other major buildings in Adelaide, nobody would have considered about Adelaide.

What is there to boast about the Adelaide Hills and the wineries? Most Asian region people are not into wines, Malaysia has a world-class casino and resorts on top of the hill, what about Adelaide Hills?

Adelaide has not done enough to attract the attention of the younger generations of the Asian people; I do not know about the other cultures or races, because I am speaking this based on my Asian Malaysian background, and largely because of the lack of developments in Adelaide in the past decades. Young people loves to see world class city, high rise, new buildings, poshy clubs, restaurants, hang out places, endless developments, and not so much regulations as to what can or what cannot be built. And when you build something, build it wild and make it stand out, not being constrain with heights or shadows or all sorts of other craps some people can come out with.

Why most Asian migrants love Melbourne? Because they are so much more aggressive in terms of construction and developments in the city itself, it reflects so much of what Asian countries are like, but in a much better government and economic. They can imagine themselves being in Melbourne just like they do back home, with the benefits of good government system.

Sydney involves higher cost of living, which is a setback. Queensland has nothing but its coast and those entertainment worlds which may not be everyone's cup of tea. Perth is too far west to the rest of the capital cities, which explains why most Asian people decided to invest in Perth's properties so that when they retire they can just migrate there (and my grandparents almost did). When they think NT, they think of deserts, and they pretty much has never heard of Hobart or that Tassie is just an island off Australia with nothing else. Nobody think of Adelaide. Adelaide does not remind them of anything.

So, all we can hope for is that the current on-going developments in the city would be beneficial to SA and everybody else in the years to come. I really and truly hope they will bring the city to life and put it on the spotlight. I've said it before, after business hours, the city is pretty much dead. And don't argue about what is on and what is open at the little corner, they are so small and insignificant nobody would give a rats. We need more than that to keep the city alive, not being wondered by drunks and homeless people begging for coins.

In a world class city, the city never sleeps, not even the coldest winter night, and the warmest summer night.

crawf wrote:I think the most important key to the city's success is more residents living within the city area, which opens up more opportunities.

With so many apartments planned or u/c for the city, the CBD is going to be much more alive in a few years time. Not to mention how much the tramline extension is improving the city and opening up the southern CBD, and with the government more than likely going to create a western loop and other extensions, the city is going to be much more better and alive in a few years time - increasing number of commercial and other developments are also going to help.

Really the city is already changing!

Will wrote:
crawf wrote:I think the most important key to the city's success is more residents living within the city area, which opens up more opportunities.

With so many apartments planned or u/c for the city, the CBD is going to be much more alive in a few years time. Not to mention how much the tramline extension is improving the city and opening up the southern CBD, and with the government more than likely going to create a western loop and other extensions, the city is going to be much more better and alive in a few years time - increasing number of commercial and other developments are also going to help.

Really the city is already changing!
I agree with this, however I think we have to be more dynamic in this regard.

Increasing the CBD population will definately make the CBD appear more alive, but also extend the hours of activity from the present 9-6 on certain days.

I think the ACC has to set an audacious target. I say 100 000 people living in the ACC area by 2020. I know this will be difficult to achieve if we maintain the present course of action. We need government initiated residential development in the city.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:04 pm**

thanks Edgar, you make many good points and i enjoy reading your contributions. much appreciated...

FYI, page 56 of today's Financial Review has this short article:

LIVE IT UP IN AUSTRALIA - Australian cities are among the world's most livable, according to a survey by the Economist Intelligence Unit which ranked nearly 130 cities. Vancouver Canada was the highest scoring city, followed in 2nd place by Melbourne. Perth, Adelaide & Sydney are ranked 5th to 7th respectively.

If this survey result is correct then I ask myself "why aren't people lined at the SA border waiting to get in?" Is it simply because we don't promote ourselves well enough and don't have any high-rise buildings with sexy architecture to immediately catch everyones attention? could be...

Adelaide is definitely in the tough position of having to compete with several Top 10 cities located in the same country! Interesting that Bris-Vegas did not get a mention and we rank similar to Sydney. I tried to find the source article including the survey criteria but could not find anything more recent than 2005. I wonder if the survey included a rating for "general vibe in the CBD after 5pm and on weekends!"

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:55 pm**

Wayno, the governments in Asian countries are fighting with themselves to keep their citizens from migrating out of the country. Despite their countless and endless effort to bring 'modernity' to their own country, but mainly because of the lack in leadership and also efficiency in their own government ruling system, are the main reasons their citizens are migrating out of the country.

What Melbourne has been doing all these years, is to create a 'modern' city, so much that resembles what a 'modern' and 'developing' cities in Asia are like. And because Melbourne is in Australia and the fact that Australian government is regarded 'superior' when to most Asian citizens in Asian countries of the third world. You cannot deny the fact that younger generation prefers 'modernity', they drive newer cars, they buy newer houses, they want to work in a more exclusive environments, they want to be involved in things such as entertainments, shoppings, surfings and stuffs like that.

They are less interested in visiting wineries, they are less interested in sight seeing and driving to country towns, they are less interested in going camping, or fishing. And that is what Adelaide offers best, but don't get me wrong, I for one, are otherwise, which is why I love Adelaide more the other cities in Australia, and have chosen Adelaide as my destination city for migration.

On top of that, SA may also need more established educational institutions such as more colleges and more universities. Back in the days when I was still deciding through the list of universities in Australia that I would prefer to enter, the 2 most famous universities in Adelaide for choices are the Adelaide U and UNISA only. Compared to other states, they offer plenty of choices in Melbourne and Sydney, and there goes the number of international entrants into SA. Most of the migrants are international university students who decided to stay back after the completion of their studies. So with higher number of graduates from Melbourne and Sydney, they have higher potential of migrants numbers when compared to SA.

Young Asian people loves loves loves shopping, there is not much to be shopped in Adelaide, and what makes matter worse is that, most stocks are different from what you get in Melbourne or Sydney, they get all the good stuffs and the less interesting stuffs are most likely to be passed down to Adelaide. Same brand , different states, you get different stocks. And the money spent from these shopping sprees could be one of the major contributor to the states economic as well, as much as it does to Asian countries.

Ask yourself, every time you leave SA for a trip to interstate, places such as Melbourne, Sydney, and Queensland, and list down what you are looking forward into your trip, is what SA or Adelaide in particular, does not have, and is what we should have. The merits to visit interstates is what SA is lacking of.

The one questions I have always wanted to know is that, does more jobs attract more people, or does more people will eventually create more jobs?

I seriously think they are contributing to each other and is what SA seriously need.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:42 pm**

Wayno wrote:* What if the SA Govt offered BIG tax breaks for LARGE overseas corporations to setup shop here. I realize this could create angst for existing south aussie companies, so perhaps it should only apply to new industries not existing here yet (can anyone think of any industry types?). I'm pretty sure Ireland took this approach to attract the I.T. industry (Microsoft et al) into Dublin a few years ago. Microsoft got a tax shelter (saving them $100's of millions) and Ireland broke into a brand new industry creating heaps of jobs. Apparently still going well today...

I take it you're unfamiliar with the previous government's efforts in this area - Motorola, EDS, etc.? Also, don't forget the continual propping up of the Pt Stanvac refinery and Mitsubishi. The problem with this sort of thing is that as soon as the incentives run out, the company packs up and moves to somewhere else that is offering incentives.

A number of people have mentioned low-cost housing (indeed I think I've preached the idea here before) and I think that this is a very important thing to look at - everyone knows the city sucks after business hours because there's nobody around. Shops and stuff don't stay open late because there's nobody around. More people want to live closer to the city because they don't want to commute (as much) everywhere but there are limited homes and the demand is pushing the prices out of reach of all but the wealthy, which is bound to result in social and commercial problems in the future. (After all, the wealthy need the less-well off to clean their toilets and wait their tables, etc. and these people aren't going to want to commute 1 hr each way from the edge of town to get to their jobs.)

If we look back in history we see Sir Thomas Playford kick-started the industrialisation of SA by establishing the Housing Trust to provide thousands of low-cost (I believe they started the use of brick-veneer construction) but decent homes to attract migrants. He then shopped this large labour pool to industry, who came and built factories. (Chrysler/Mitsubishi, Email/Westinghouse, Holden, etc.)

We have a chance to replicate this, but learn from the social mistakes that Playford's Housing Trust developments wrought. The government can build good-quality apartments in the city, set aside say 10% of them to be used as traditional Housing Trust use, while selling the rest at slightly above cost to pay for them. Only owner-occupiers would be allowed to purchase and buyers that can't afford a loan from a regular bank could finance it through HomeStart with a low-interest loan (market rate plus a bit to cover costs). People who own their own homes tend to take much better care of them, and the Housing Trust now builds homes in amongst private homes rather than clumping them all together like in the Playford days (really they had no choice then) as it prevents the social problems of having a bunch of poor people all together and helps them feel better or something.

Imagine the effect on the vibrancy of the city in five to ten years if the government went out and broke ground on a new 100+ apartment building every quarter for five years. 20 new buildings with a minimum of 2,000 apartments. Figure 2 people per residence - there's a minimum of 4,000 new city residents. It's not "who came first - the chicken or the egg?", it's "build it and they will come" (and make their own fun). Our own history has shown us that. Of course the wealthy developers will piss and moan about the competition, but the government just needs to tell them that they're not competing with their markets of students or the wealthy.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:35 pm**

Bulldozer wrote:
Wayno wrote:* What if the SA Govt offered BIG tax breaks for LARGE overseas corporations to setup shop here. I realize this could create angst for existing south aussie companies, so perhaps it should only apply to new industries not existing here yet (can anyone think of any industry types?). I'm pretty sure Ireland took this approach to attract the I.T. industry (Microsoft et al) into Dublin a few years ago. Microsoft got a tax shelter (saving them $100's of millions) and Ireland broke into a brand new industry creating heaps of jobs. Apparently still going well today...
I take it you're unfamiliar with the previous government's efforts in this area - Motorola, EDS, etc.? Also, don't forget the continual propping up of the Pt Stanvac refinery and Mitsubishi. The problem with this sort of thing is that as soon as the incentives run out, the company packs up and moves to somewhere else that is offering incentives.

A number of people have mentioned low-cost housing (indeed I think I've preached the idea here before) and I think that this is a very important thing to look at - everyone knows the city sucks after business hours because there's nobody around. Shops and stuff don't stay open late because there's nobody around. More people want to live closer to the city because they don't want to commute (as much) everywhere but there are limited homes and the demand is pushing the prices out of reach of all but the wealthy, which is bound to result in social and commercial problems in the future. (After all, the wealthy need the less-well off to clean their toilets and wait their tables, etc. and these people aren't going to want to commute 1 hr each way from the edge of town to get to their jobs.)

If we look back in history we see Sir Thomas Playford kick-started the industrialisation of SA by establishing the Housing Trust to provide thousands of low-cost (I believe they started the use of brick-veneer construction) but decent homes to attract migrants. He then shopped this large labour pool to industry, who came and built factories. (Chrysler/Mitsubishi, Email/Westinghouse, Holden, etc.)

We have a chance to replicate this, but learn from the social mistakes that Playford's Housing Trust developments wrought. The government can build good-quality apartments in the city, set aside say 10% of them to be used as traditional Housing Trust use, while selling the rest at slightly above cost to pay for them. Only owner-occupiers would be allowed to purchase and buyers that can't afford a loan from a regular bank could finance it through HomeStart with a low-interest loan (market rate plus a bit to cover costs). People who own their own homes tend to take much better care of them, and the Housing Trust now builds homes in amongst private homes rather than clumping them all together like in the Playford days (really they had no choice then) as it prevents the social problems of having a bunch of poor people all together and helps them feel better or something.

Imagine the effect on the vibrancy of the city in five to ten years if the government went out and broke ground on a new 100+ apartment building every quarter for five years. 20 new buildings with a minimum of 2,000 apartments. Figure 2 people per residence - there's a minimum of 4,000 new city residents. It's not "who came first - the chicken or the egg?", it's "build it and they will come" (and make their own fun). Our own history has shown us that. Of course the wealthy developers will piss and moan about the competition, but the government just needs to tell them that they're not competing with their markets of students or the wealthy.

Excellent post Bulldozer.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:44 pm**

This is a positive article. Sure we still are losing people, but it shows that we are on the right track. I am confident that Adelaide will lsoe its backwater tag, in the near future. If Brisbane and Perth were able to do it, I am sure we can too. Take into account that Brisbane before the mid 1980's was probably the most conservative capital city in Australia.

From the messenger:

Brain drain stemmed

Chris Day

29Jan08
Suzanne Dickey moved to Adelaide two years ago from New Orleans. Pic: Roy Van Der Vegt.

Suzanne Dickey moved to Adelaide two years ago from New Orleans. Pic: Roy Van Der Vegt.

SOUTH Australia has stemmed its conspicuous brain drain more than halving its population loss to other states within 10 years.

The net population loss interstate has fallen to 2860 in 2005/06, compared to 6238 in 1995/96, according to latest Australian Bureau of Statistic (ABS) data.

SA Great CEO Judy Potter was encouraged by the fall saying an ``aggressive approach'' was needed to attract more interstate workers.

``It's being pegged back but we've got to do more,'' Ms Potter told the City Messenger.

``(Interstate population growth) has to get into a positive because of our ageing population and for us to benefit from the projected growth in mining and defence.''

Ms Potter said a lack of jobs in Adelaide in the 1990s was the main reason people left; new jobs were the key to bringing them home. ``We've got to let them know that the state they left is not the same.''

Last year SA Great launched a website dedicated to luring Adelaide expats home. It carries information on job opportunities, homes for sale and lists events and new bars and restaurants across town.

SA Great has also spoken to 50,000 school students in the past two years, telling them about careers locally to entice them to stay. Meanwhile, SA attracted a record 10,601 overseas migrants in 2006/7, according the ABS.

Industry & Trade Minister Karlene Maywald said that was in part down to the government's Make the Move campaign, targeting skilled workers in the UK, Ireland, India, China and South Korea.

She said a national advertising campaign starting this month would target workers in Melbourne, Sydney and Perth.

ADELAIDE WAS DEFINITELY THE RIGHT CHOICE

COMMENT - by City Messenger reporter Chris Day

I WAS drawn to Adelaide by the promise of cheap rents and a golden summer.

As an international student in 2001, my plan was simple: four months hitting the books and watching the budget; followed by two months living it up on the east coast.

It mostly went to plan, and after six months I flew home to England.

Tomorrow (February 1) marks five years since I farewelled friends and family for a new, permanent life in Adelaide.

Mine is the age old story of meeting a girl - she just happened to live in Adelaide. Five years on, the city is as much mine as hers.

On arriving in Adelaide full-time, I quickly found some labouring work at an Adelaide Hills' fig farm and kept my head down for the best part of a year.

Landing a job on a paper was a turning point and I now see Adelaide as a great place to live, if not for a holiday.

Adelaide's selling points have long been its cheap living, great climate, wonderful food, parklands setting and festivals.

But as I get older, I'm starting to see the city's other benefits; work life balance; good schools; and still being able to afford going out to dinner once a week while paying a mortgage and saving for the future.

I still get homesick and my wife and I went back to England for a holiday in September. Catching up with Adelaide friends in London highlighted the contrast between the two cites.

We had a great day touring the Houses of Parliament and taking in a fashion exhibition at the Victoria & Albert Museum, as well as a bit of shopping.

Then it started to go down hill.

We had dinner in a busy city pub, one of the few spots you can eat a reasonable meal for under $100 a head.

You could hardly hear yourself think above the cackling spivs. We then opted for a quiet bar where a round of six G&Ts set me back another $100.

As the night came to end, our friend Beth, usually of sound mind, said out of the blue: ``Recently, I find myself sitting on the tube looking at the people next to me and want to bite them. London is just making me angry''.

We heard the other week that after two years she's coming home.

I'll always miss family and mates, England's pub culture and countryside, being able to go to Paris for a weekend and watching a decent football (soccer) match.

But when I finish work at 6pm, head into town for a feed and a Fringe show and get home in a cab for $15, I'll know I made the right choice.

I don't know all the words to the national anthem yet but I still call Australia home.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:33 pm**

Here is a few advertising slogan for Adelaide.....

Live Cheap.....LIVE ADELAIDE!!

or...

If moneys an issue.... COME TO ADELAIDE!!!

or one for our numberplates...

SA, the cheapest state!!

I think that article does not promote anything at all and saying that people are coming here because its "cheaper" is pathetic. After our mining boom when house prices skyrocket like in perth, what will be our main selling point then?

Its like saying to buy 'black and gold' products cos its cheaper??

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:43 pm**

In saying this, if we were to promote Adelaide as a cheap city, then what kind of people will we be looking at bringing over here?

We might end up as one big refugee camp for the poor.

Posted: **Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:04 pm**

Talk about being livable. Great place to bring up a family.

A BRILLIANT BLEND. We have the family friendly suburbs (well most atleast)

We have a BOOMING & great liftstyle within our CITY itself. *Que pictures of new Buildings, Hindley, Rundle and North Terrace

The city of FESTIVALS, Life & Fun

The real Australian city, liveable , enjoyable and Different.

Adelaide- A Brilliant Blend, A Brilliant Location

We want you! (Big Picture of Rann Pointing at viewer with his cheesy smirk)

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:01 am**

Personally I think Adelaide & SA should drop the whole 'low cost' thing, housing prices are skyrocketing and living expenses aren't much better. While we are still the cheapest city to live on the mainland, though it wont be long before we will lose the title - I think we are going to end up like Perth, I hope not though.

I think the main key issues of making Adelaide 'the exciting and place to be' is

- Scrap the 1970s 'pyramid shaped skyline' plan for a more modern and exciting plan. Such as lifting height restrictions, allowing more residential apartments in certain areas and really make Victoria Square the main CBD hub (instead of Grenfell St). However the ACC are currently revamping the city development plan - so watch this space

When we get more people living in the city and suburbs (say 40-60,000+ for the CBD) then we can start looking at these options...
- Allow city shops to open till 9pm Monday-Thursday, 10pm Friday, 7pm Sat & Sun and 5pm on selected public holidays. Even allow some shops to trade 24/7 (such as supermarkets).

- Start bringing more street activity in the CBD and inner suburbs, such as creating new 'entertainment' and 'dining' strips in the city and improve existing ones (Hutt Street & Morphett St has massive potential).

- Redevelop the Torrens Foreshore into a mini 'arts' and waterfront precinct between the casino and Morphett Street filled with low/mid rise apartments, restaurants/cafes, bars, shops and a footbridge connecting Station Rd -> Torrens Promenade -> Adelaide Oval. Though it will not be a carbon copy of Southgate Melbourne or Southbank in Brisbane.

- Redevelop Victoria Square into a 'world class' public square, get ideas from overseas (not just Melbourne)

- Beautify the Squares and parklands, and make them more public friendly such as holding more events and festivals.

- Redevelop the Rundle Mall Precinct, and turn into a creative, fun, vibrant shopping and dining destination. Maybe get some ideas from Queen St Mall, however because of the climate difference it would be better to get ideas from overseas.

- Redevelop some of the streets and laneways, for the same reason as Rundle Mall.

- Improve Public Transport in the city such as more tramline extensions throughout the city and suburbs, and maybe in the future look at a underground heavy rail city loop.

- Maybe look at creating a super bus interchange under Grenfell St/Currie St with a bus tunnel under most of the street to clear up the street of tones of buses and improve frequency. And give Grenfell/Currie St a true makeover

- Build the new 'marj at the Clipsal or Keswick Barracks site, and turn the railway yards into a large 'sporting and entertainment' precinct which would include a multi-purpose stadium to replace AAMI & Hindmarsh, while the area would include low/mid/high rise apartments, offices, shops, restaurant/cafes, bars and a interactive science centre.

- Redevelop the Memorial Drive Courts, into a world class sporting precinct (mostly Tennis focused). Includes a versatile arena with a opening roof, able to hold all kinds of events and concerts. It would be the home of the annual Adelaide International tennis match and the precinct would be connected to the Torrens Promenade/CBD thanks to the footbridge.

- Keep the Keswick Terminal, though transform the suburb into exciting and busy suburb with offices, apartments and dining, entertainment and retail options.

- More promotion of Adelaide & South Australia interstate and overseas, such as once the current upmarket retail projects are completed start promoting more of Adelaide's growing shopping scene - make Adelaide the new 'Shopping or Fashion' capital.

theres probably more...

Now while some of that stuff is more like a dream, majority can be done over a long time period. We just need - Vision, Determination, Creativity and Money. Then we will have the Perfect and exciting city, where people will love to be

Don't get me wrong I love Adelaide and think its great, though as all of us know it has massive potential to be even more greater and it has alot of room for improvement. And thankgod the State Government, ACC and key business departments realise this.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:23 am**

Bulldozer wrote:
Wayno wrote:* What if the SA Govt offered BIG tax breaks for LARGE overseas corporations to setup shop here. I realize this could create angst for existing south aussie companies, so perhaps it should only apply to new industries not existing here yet (can anyone think of any industry types?). I'm pretty sure Ireland took this approach to attract the I.T. industry (Microsoft et al) into Dublin a few years ago. Microsoft got a tax shelter (saving them $100's of millions) and Ireland broke into a brand new industry creating heaps of jobs. Apparently still going well today...
I take it you're unfamiliar with the previous government's efforts in this area - Motorola, EDS, etc.? Also, don't forget the continual propping up of the Pt Stanvac refinery and Mitsubishi. The problem with this sort of thing is that as soon as the incentives run out, the company packs up and moves to somewhere else that is offering incentives.

A number of people have mentioned low-cost housing (indeed I think I've preached the idea here before) and I think that this is a very important thing to look at - everyone knows the city sucks after business hours because there's nobody around. Shops and stuff don't stay open late because there's nobody around. More people want to live closer to the city because they don't want to commute (as much) everywhere but there are limited homes and the demand is pushing the prices out of reach of all but the wealthy, which is bound to result in social and commercial problems in the future. (After all, the wealthy need the less-well off to clean their toilets and wait their tables, etc. and these people aren't going to want to commute 1 hr each way from the edge of town to get to their jobs.)

If we look back in history we see Sir Thomas Playford kick-started the industrialisation of SA by establishing the Housing Trust to provide thousands of low-cost (I believe they started the use of brick-veneer construction) but decent homes to attract migrants. He then shopped this large labour pool to industry, who came and built factories. (Chrysler/Mitsubishi, Email/Westinghouse, Holden, etc.)

We have a chance to replicate this, but learn from the social mistakes that Playford's Housing Trust developments wrought. The government can build good-quality apartments in the city, set aside say 10% of them to be used as traditional Housing Trust use, while selling the rest at slightly above cost to pay for them. Only owner-occupiers would be allowed to purchase and buyers that can't afford a loan from a regular bank could finance it through HomeStart with a low-interest loan (market rate plus a bit to cover costs). People who own their own homes tend to take much better care of them, and the Housing Trust now builds homes in amongst private homes rather than clumping them all together like in the Playford days (really they had no choice then) as it prevents the social problems of having a bunch of poor people all together and helps them feel better or something.

Imagine the effect on the vibrancy of the city in five to ten years if the government went out and broke ground on a new 100+ apartment building every quarter for five years. 20 new buildings with a minimum of 2,000 apartments. Figure 2 people per residence - there's a minimum of 4,000 new city residents. It's not "who came first - the chicken or the egg?", it's "build it and they will come" (and make their own fun). Our own history has shown us that. Of course the wealthy developers will piss and moan about the competition, but the government just needs to tell them that they're not competing with their markets of students or the wealthy.

Bulldozer had made a really good point here. It is clearly stated that we need more residents in the city or closer to the city. Despite having several apartments properties in our CBD, it is simply not enough, they are very limited, not the best spaced living area, and also exclusively expensive. Before my sister bought a property in Mawson Lakes, she was much more interested in apartments (or Condominiums as well called it in Malaysia and Singapore), but a visit to Oaks Horizon proves itself that apartment living in the city is way over priced and limited. With only 1 'proper' bedroom + a small tiny room (for wardrobe or study which cannot even fit a bed in) was put up for sale at almost $400,000, and that is without a car parking lot, thrown in another $30,000-40,000 for one space.

Adelaide seriously need several projects which includes world-class apartments/condominiums with proper facilities in order to capture the attention of migrants into the city. I do not mind moving into living in an apartment if they are more affordable and not that limited to choices. The problems I cannot seem to understand with properties around the city is that, the prices are so high, and yet there is nothing really attractive about them and the market seems to always project the image of 'high demands'.

In countries such as Singapore, when you talk about apartment living, you are talking about an apartment unit with the floor area of equivalent to an average sized new houses in Adelaide. You get 2 bathrooms, 2 bedrooms, sometimes 3, a kitchen, a laundry, a living room, and a balcony. Not only that, you get a proper swimming pool, a proper gym, tennis courts even. They are large scale no doubt about that, but it's not that we are lacking of locations of space in the city, we have MASSIVE under-developed city areas in Adelaide, with so much potential for large scale projects, but no one is dare enough to do anything, because of the numerous ridiculously restriction placed on developers.

It is really, very hard, to change. But if you want changes, you got to accept the fact that changes are needed indeed to progress the city. It is very hard, but not entirely impossible though, to not change the city and make it progress. Take a loot at the 20-23 Currie St project, such a large scale proposal were put on hold because some people do not want changes, then sparked the different in opinions in the forum as to weather they should be kept or destroy the few little buildings at the alley, and even want to have both.

As much as we need more office space/buildings in the city, you need to balance that out with enough residential livings too. If the entire CBD is being covered with offices, then what do you call life in the city after 'office' hours? Essentially, the CBD is for business, but if I were a developer, I would buy up properties off the CBD at suburbs such as Mile End, Wayville, Fitzroy etc, and build more apartments to create more population density closer to the CBD itself. Not just residential housings that take up so much spaces.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 pm**

Edgar, prices are high because there's more people wanting city apartments than there are city apartments. Because people are willing to pay so much for what are lacklustre properties relative to other cities, developers are currently only catering to that market by building expensive apartments. The amazing sale rates of recently announced developments just further reinforces this.

I think that like with all markets things will improve over time, but due to other factors at play like the booming economy and population and limited release of new developments it is going to take a long time. That is why I believe government needs to step in and provide direction for the market, but it's not just economic, it will also provide long-term social and environmental improvements as well.

I'm actually quite surprised that anyone in politics hasn't cottoned-on to this idea yet - to me it seems to appeal to both the socialists, greenies and the free-marketists. (It's a cromulent word!

) Socialists should like it because it's alleviating the housing affordability crisis, increasing public housing stocks and letting the classes intermingle. Greenies should like it because it means less cars on the road, less urban sprawl and more people walking/cycling/using public transport. The moneymen should like it because private enterprise can design and construct the buildings and it helps individuals grow their wealth... oh, and they can reduce taxes/public debt because they won't have to spend so much money building freeways and such.

Maybe I should move back to SA and start my own political party? I'm sure I could do a much better job than the vast majority of those clowns on North Tce.

Posted: **Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:07 am**

Bulldozer wrote:Edgar, prices are high because there's more people wanting city apartments than there are city apartments. Because people are willing to pay so much for what are lacklustre properties relative to other cities, developers are currently only catering to that market by building expensive apartments. The amazing sale rates of recently announced developments just further reinforces this.

I think that like with all markets things will improve over time, but due to other factors at play like the booming economy and population and limited release of new developments it is going to take a long time. That is why I believe government needs to step in and provide direction for the market, but it's not just economic, it will also provide long-term social and environmental improvements as well.

I'm actually quite surprised that anyone in politics hasn't cottoned-on to this idea yet - to me it seems to appeal to both the socialists, greenies and the free-marketists. (It's a cromulent word! ) Socialists should like it because it's alleviating the housing affordability crisis, increasing public housing stocks and letting the classes intermingle. Greenies should like it because it means less cars on the road, less urban sprawl and more people walking/cycling/using public transport. The moneymen should like it because private enterprise can design and construct the buildings and it helps individuals grow their wealth... oh, and they can reduce taxes/public debt because they won't have to spend so much money building freeways and such.

Maybe I should move back to SA and start my own political party? I'm sure I could do a much better job than the vast majority of those clowns on North Tce.

If there is more demand, why hasn't there been more supply? Are they skeptical about proposing more residential apartments in the city would cause lack of sales? And in my opinion, to make matter worse, given the height limitations, it is really hard to construct residential apartments to make it affordable and profiting to developers, given the fact that they can only built 'that' high and as a result will only amounted to 'that' many units in the building, which drives the overall cost up, being passed down to the high sales price.

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