Sensational-Adelaide.com

Ho Really wrote:
Garden Island? Amongst mozzy infested mangroves? Part of Garden Island was a dump and the land reclaimed. Not sure you want to build a resort there near high voltage lines.

Cheers

HOWZAT!!! GOT HIM!!

(Check the date, Ho)

Ho Really wrote:

crawf wrote:That is the 3rd time that article was posted lol. If this state was loaded, that area could be transformed into a luxury resort style precinct.

Garden Island? Amongst mozzy infested mangroves? Part of Garden Island was a dump and the land reclaimed. Not sure you want to build a resort there near high voltage lines.

Cheers

Well ofcourse the power lines and station would have to be relocated away from the precinct.

though this is all pie in sky stuff...

I can picture environmentalists protesting this.

AtD wrote:I can picture environmentalists protesting this.

Not just that (the mangroves), I wouldn't have my house there even if they gave me everything for free (land, etc.)...

Cheers

AtD wrote:I can picture environmentalists protesting this.

Most definately. I must admit when I read jet boat racing I became somewhat concerned about any impact this might have on the Port River dolphin population. Even if its proven that impacts would be minimal, you could probably still expect to see Greenies picketing that we're hurting Flipper. Should be interesting to see how it pans out.

Hi All, Long time listener, first time caller

So here we are in a state where a group of private individuals want to spend $25 mil on a state of the art International standard sporting facility (not Garden Island, it's on the 'mainland' in the area though) and what is the government doing to help?

I thought we were looking for infrastructure projects...

hello and welcome Sir

To answer your question, I doubt many people on here will argue that a motorsport complex at Garden Island will add very much to Adelaide's urban vitality, so personally this project would be at the bottom of my list

If there are private investors with their checkbooks out and the government are not looking to help is say shame, Rann, shame

Hi there jk1237,

I suppose that depends on your definition of urban vitality.


Being an Internationally recognized venue would certainly contribute to tourism. It would also be SA's second biggest sporting venue after Football Park.

The incorporation of the Motorsport Business Park would help create highly skilled positions for apprentices/tradesmen/women that will be required in the mining/shipbuilding industries in the near future, as well as R&D for improved vehicle development. It will also incorporate mentoring programs for disadvantaged youth.

Modern driver and emergency services training facilities will be available.

My understanding is the consortium who wish to construct the complex have also offered to build the proposed water catchment area for the Wingfield Industrial Estate to prevent run off into the gulf, saving Council/Government expense.

Fair enough if they were asking for Govt money to build it, there are a lot more projects out there with greater merit (hospitals, rail electrification etc).

My issue is this is a private project funded by private money that may move to Victoria because of the slowness of the approval process and the lack of action. In saying that I'm not advocating cutting corners within the process. It's about time this state adopted a 'how can we help' attitude vs the 'we'll call you' or 'we'll look at it next month' attitude that is so prevalent in Government these days.


*Disclaimer. I'm not part of the consortium, I do own a Racecar and a business that will benefit from this project. If it was approved I would have put on an apprentice this year, now that kid (and many others) will have to wait.

Very insightful Sir, thankyou for your input, and welcome to the boards

No need for formalities guys, call me Lusty

If anyone has some criticisms of the project let me know. It would be good to hear what people have to say, for or against as it is very easy to become blinded by ones own beliefs.

I also have an interest in rail transport and see it happening in that area of research often enough, though I'm still not a fan of buses .

Sir Lustalot wrote:No need for formalities guys, call me Lusty

too late - hereforth you shall always be known as 'Sir'

Wayno wrote:

Sir Lustalot wrote:No need for formalities guys, call me Lusty

too late - hereforth you shall always be known as 'Sir'

Do we need to get the Queen involved, to make it official 'n' all?

Sirrah, I'm curious to hear a little more about the business that you are in - does something like this project benefit you in ways that can't be reproduced otherwise? I'm all for encouraging businesses to take on apprentices (etc), but at first glance this project's impacts seem to fall on a rather narrow segment of the business spectrum - which makes me wonder if there are other ways that you could be prompted to add that apprentice that would do the same for a larger range of businesses.

And tourism is a tricky benefit to work with, for a couple of reasons. First, toursim is very sensitive to the rest of the economy: it does well in boom years, but when the economy slows, holiday budgets are one of the first optional spending categories that people can cut. This will not be a good year for Disneyland, for example. As a result, rather than protecting your economy during harder times and getting things moving, it can leave you more exposed to a downturn. That's not to say that we shouldn't work on building a tourism sector, but rather that it's best for a project like this (one where tourism is a major selling point) if it can continue operating and contributing even if tourist numbers fell dramatically.

The second reason is that it's often hard to say how many of the tourists that come for an attraction wouldn't have come to Adelaide anyway, which makes the overall tourism impact less than it might seem. Suppose, for example, we build some new attraction and at the end of the year we calculate that 20,000 interstate or international visitors passed through our gates, but then TourismSA crunch their numbers and say that only 10,000 more visitors came to the state. In that case, it seems that half of those people that came to our attraction were likely to come for football, or the Clipsal 500, or the TDU, or the Fringe, or whatever. And so rather than bring new money into the state, for those people we were just moving their spending from one place to another. Obviously that example's very contrived, but the point remains that when you're thinking about tourism it's important to estimate how many new visitors - how much new money - that wouldn't have come otherwise will this draw.

Prince George wrote: it's often hard to say how many of the tourists that come for an attraction wouldn't have come to Adelaide anyway, which makes the overall tourism impact less than it might seem. Suppose, for example, we build some new attraction and at the end of the year we calculate that 20,000 interstate or international visitors passed through our gates, but then TourismSA crunch their numbers and say that only 10,000 more visitors came to the state. In that case, it seems that half of those people that came to our attraction were likely to come for football, or the Clipsal 500, or the TDU, or the Fringe, or whatever. And so rather than bring new money into the state, for those people we were just moving their spending from one place to another. Obviously that example's very contrived, but the point remains that when you're thinking about tourism it's important to estimate how many new visitors - how much new money - that wouldn't have come otherwise will this draw.

What about extending the length of a stay? For example, the fact that in March we have the Adelaide Cup, the Fringe, and the Clipsal 500 (and in particular the Fringe) means that people who come for either of the races have a reason to stay longer and take in a show or two. If they came over for a race, they may not come back later for the Fringe, but because it is on and they are already going to be here, they stay a few more days, adding to our economy on the way.

Prince George wrote:Sirrah, I'm curious to hear a little more about the business that you are in - does something like this project benefit you in ways that can't be reproduced otherwise? I'm all for encouraging businesses to take on apprentices (etc), but at first glance this project's impacts seem to fall on a rather narrow segment of the business spectrum - which makes me wonder if there are other ways that you could be prompted to add that apprentice that would do the same for a larger range of businesses.

Hey there PG ,

Here we go again for the second time. I just spent an hour responding to your questions and when previewing it I was logged out and lost everything .

Anyway, I'm involved in a family business that operates a metal surface finishing plant. Back in the early 90's we were employing over 20 people, today it's three. As you would be aware most manufacturing has gone offshore and our business, as it is, doesn't have the brightest future. I was originally apprenticed as a Fitter & Turner and was employed by a leading race engine builder in SA. After 8 years there I left to study at Uni, cutting that short to run the family business. I have also operated a semi-professional Drag Racing team for 15 years.

I personally are waiting for the track to open so we can diversify into the Motorsport/Automotive R&D industry, an area I know well. Without a track and the income it generates for business I will not commit financially to those plans yet.

Back in the 90's there would have been around 300 seriously committed Drag Racers in Adelaide that would have very conservatively spent on average around $20k a year (a good engine costs between $20-100k, chassis $10-100k),most of that in the engine/transmission/chassis development area. A reasonable amount of that was spent on parts, the bulk on labour. As an example to get a Top Doorslammer chassis built today your looking at over $100k, approximately $80-90k of that on labour alone, and a 12-24 month lead time. Including street cars and hotrods the Drag Racing industry was worth around 10mil a year in SA.

Since AIR closed in 2000 the bulk of that work has stopped, putting pressure on the participating companies. As there was little high performance work around businesses had to compete for standard type car work. Combined with low profit margins on that type of work, many jobs were lost and apprenticeships in the highly skilled area of the industry ceased to be offered. The apprenticeships still offered did not attracted suitable students as the changing industry gave little incentive for the more competent to become involved. It 'aint too inspiring working on taxi's all day .

Not only over the last nine years have we lost highly skilled tradesmen and women, we have also lost an important segment of our manufacturing industry.

Because Drag Racing is focused on improving the efficiency of an engine (hence making more power) as it's major challenge, many 'backyard' projects have never got off the ground. Drag Racers, though their buisinesses interstate (and overseas) are currently developing and producing everything from more efficient components, alternative environmentally friendly fuel systems and electric motor retrofits for standard cars!

This is where the Motorsport Business Park that is to be incorporated into the complex has the most to offer.

Drag Racing, as a short duration motorsport, offers these new ideas an area of competition with a high level of public exposure, providing opportunities to gain financial help through sponsors to promote and develop these new ideas in a public environment.

If you interested in the electric developments overseas go to http://www.nedra.com/and follow the many links. If I find the link to the Aussie guys I'll let you know.

I'll finish with an interesting fact - The Pro Stock Drag Racing engine is the most efficient naturally aspirated four stroke engine currently developed (power v capacity), more than a F1 engine , only just though, and developed in places like the Motosport Business Park at the proposed Pt Adelaide Motorplex .

Prince George wrote:[And tourism is a tricky benefit to work with, for a couple of reasons. First, toursim is very sensitive to the rest of the economy: it does well in boom years, but when the economy slows, holiday budgets are one of the first optional spending categories that people can cut. This will not be a good year for Disneyland, for example. As a result, rather than protecting your economy during harder times and getting things moving, it can leave you more exposed to a downturn. That's not to say that we shouldn't work on building a tourism sector, but rather that it's best for a project like this (one where tourism is a major selling point) if it can continue operating and contributing even if tourist numbers fell dramatically.

The second reason is that it's often hard to say how many of the tourists that come for an attraction wouldn't have come to Adelaide anyway, which makes the overall tourism impact less than it might seem. Suppose, for example, we build some new attraction and at the end of the year we calculate that 20,000 interstate or international visitors passed through our gates, but then TourismSA crunch their numbers and say that only 10,000 more visitors came to the state. In that case, it seems that half of those people that came to our attraction were likely to come for football, or the Clipsal 500, or the TDU, or the Fringe, or whatever. And so rather than bring new money into the state, for those people we were just moving their spending from one place to another. Obviously that example's very contrived, but the point remains that when you're thinking about tourism it's important to estimate how many new visitors - how much new money - that wouldn't have come otherwise will this draw.

Those who know me know that when it comes to facts and figures that I always err on the conservative side, especially when I can't directly reference it to well researched and acknowledged sources. As I don't have all the figures in front of me I'll let you know what I am aware of. Sorry If I'm not entirely addressing your questions. Also because I'm most familiar with Drag Racing I'll concentrate on that, not forgetting it is a multi-use venue incorporating an International Standard Circuit track for cars and bikes, Drifting, Jet Sprint boats and Motorcross.

Firstly, the complex will not have to rely on any interstate or overseas visitors to be viable. This is just a bonus for the track operators and the state.

Many of those from interstate who will attend the complex will be competitors and their crew persons/family. On average, from my experience travelling to events and knowing many competitors, conservatively this would be in the vicinity of 500-1000 per event plus spectators. Major events would draw more, as an example the Winternationals held in Brisbane over the Queens Birthday Weekend attracts over 500 entrants, plus crews and family. The City of Ipswich and Queensland Major Events estimates this event alone brings in over $14mil to the local community. Willowbank runs almost 100 meetings a year with around seven major events annually. Last year in Brisbane there was over 11,000 competitors at the Drag Racing events including street meets and test days.

Comparing similar sized cities, last time I heard, Perth Motorplex had well over 200,000 spectators annually while Brisbane had just over 180,000 not including kids under 14 (est 17% or around 30,000).

Being a fairly unpublicised sport in the mainstream media these are good numbers. OneHD has just signed a major three year deal that will see the National Drag Racing Championships broadcast on most Sunday afternoons (with mid week replays as well as current coverage on SBS and Foxtel), as well as a number of corporate heavyweights getting on board. This will help develop the profile of the sport and the interstate interest, bringing people over and hopefully encouraging them to stay a few extra days.

It will also provide a bit of extra vitality to the Summer sporting calendar in SA, Drag Racing being a Summer Sport.

Personally I would like to see a "Speed Week" event held in Adelaide. Starting with an International Drag Racing event the week before Clipsal 500 (or a second Supercar event at the motorplex?). Start a round of the Rally Championship at the Drags then run all week through country SA, finishing at the 500.

Nothing like this is run anywhere else in the world and would appeal to both the US and Europe.


The important thing to remember is this project, unlike those built interstate from Government funds (and then operated commercially very successfully), is privately funded and has the potential to create many jobs and popular events at virtually no expense to the State Government. I would have thought a bit more progress would have been made by now so Mr Rann could open it right before next years Election!

Finally we have to take into account there are thousands of sporting venues encompassing everything from Cricket, Golf, Football, Lawn Bowls, Hockey, Baseball, Lacrosse etc, even Bocce, all government funded, and we can't seem to get a privately funded quality motorsport venue ( that can also be used for concerts, exhibitions, road safety and emergency services training etc.) up and running in SA .


I hope that answers most your questions. If there is anything extra you would like to know I'll do my best to find out.

Thanks,

Sir