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However, if this SA mining boom really happens Port Augusta would be the smartest choice for a second major hub. Yes, it's not the nicest place but it's 2.5
hours drive from Adelaide and a rail link already exists. I would imagine that it would become a hub for the thousands of miners and their families. At least the Flinders Ranges and beautiful Port Lincoln aren't too far away for these new residents to explore once they arrive

Port Augusta may look good economically, but let's not forget the socio-economic level that needs to be cleaned up.

I'd say either, Murray Bridge or Victor Harbor. Unless they're too close. If so, how about Port Wakefield?

iTouch(myself) wrote:

However, if this SA mining boom really happens Port Augusta would be the smartest choice for a second major hub. Yes, it's not the nicest place but it's 2.5
hours drive from Adelaide and a rail link already exists. I would imagine that it would become a hub for the thousands of miners and their families. At least the Flinders Ranges and beautiful Port Lincoln aren't too far away for these new residents to explore once they arrive

Port Augusta may look good economically, but let's not forget the socio-economic level that needs to be cleaned up.

I'd say either, Murray Bridge or Victor Harbor. Unless they're too close. If so, how about Port Wakefield?

A few things (with a few leaps as well...) relating to overall national growth. I think SA is in a good place to assist in this area.
1. Assuming the mining boom happens Port Augusta is a likely area of growth, and don't forget Whyalla as well - it already has plans to cope with a population increase to 50k doesn't it? Good transport links to Adelaide would be essential and tourist infrastructure in the Flinders would undoubtedly improve. Half way locations - such as Port Wakefield and Clare would probably increase in population in such a situation due to the improved economic activity travelling through their towns (I'm thinking rail through Port Wakefield - as well as increased defence activity in Adelaide's far north; and tourist traffic through the Clare Valley to Augusta and the FLinders.)
2. SImilarly, any population and economic growth in Mount Gambier would impact Murray Bridge, Naracoorte, Robe due to increased traffic from Adelaide; and the Western Victorian cities of Portland (as the regions major port), Ouyen, Port Fairy, Warnambool and Colac would benefit due to increased traffic from Melbourne.
3. Most significant though, in the short term at least, is Mildura. It is already growing significantly and is somewhat aligned to SA already for its economic activity and services - and closer links with the riverland centres of Renmark/Berri/Loxton and mallee locations such as Pinaroo are logical for SA planning.

Basically, its all pie in the sky hypothetical stuff, but I can see an ideal situation of 3 major centres (based around populations of 200-300k) at Augusta, Gambier and Mildura, and maybe another 6-8 medium sized service/transit centres at Wakefield, Whyalla and Clare in the north; Naracoorte and Warnambool in the SE; and Renmark and Pinaroo in the NE. Murray Bridge (and Ouyen) would ideally service both the NE & SE population increases as well. Whether the population, water and economic resources are available for such develop is debatable though. A more tightly populated Western Victoria/Eastern SA would be a benefit to the nation as a whole, wouldn't it?

I think the idea floated a few years ago, to move the prisons to Murray Bridge, was a catalyst for creating a regional city. IIRC, 3 prisons were going to be moved to the Murray Bridge area. These prisons need wardens and other staff, they all have families, the families need services, the people who provide those services have families, and their families need services, and on it goes. It needs a catalyst to get the first group of people there, to create the need for services.

The best way to get people to go and live somewhere is to create jobs there. Here's an idea I may have mentioned before. Subsidize transport for industry. Land is cheaper in the regional areas, and the main reason manufacturing industries don't move out there is the cost of transporting their product to the cities. Subsidise the transport of goods manufactured in the regions, get the manufacturers to move out there and create jobs, and watch towns grow.

On the other hand, we have targets for reducing emissions, to which transportation is a large contributor. Encouraging businesses etc to decentralize and then subsidising transportation rather works against that. The other consideration is that too many businesses are mercenary, hanging around while subsidies are rolling in and then moving on when they go. We don't want to either watch regional towns struggle if industries close, nor do we want to be held hostage by them.

I agree with you re:businesses leaving. You would need to ensure that the area doesn't rely on 1 single place of emplyment for a large part of the community and it is a diverse economy, having it as a regional hub should help that but until it grows it would always be a fiar risk I guess.

In regards to emissions, I agree with you also, But my counter agruement would be that we have a clean sheet to work with meaining inefficiecies seen in the current setup of say, Adelaide could be avoided (PT intergrated into the growth).

its a pie in the sky idea, but one I think worth exploring. I'm still not convinced it should be Murray Bridge, something further away from Adelaide would be better, mainly to avoid overlap with services and business that already exist

capitalist wrote:I agree with you re:businesses leaving. You would need to ensure that the area doesn't rely on 1 single place of emplyment for a large part of the community and it is a diverse economy, having it as a regional hub should help that but until it grows it would always be a fiar risk I guess.

I wonder if there's any way of following Canberra's example? Originally it was dominated by a single industry (albeit not one that there was any risk of losing). Now in terms of desirability of moving there it's a serious rival to the big five.

As for subsidy, the logical thing would be to subsidize infrastructure costs rather than ongoing costs. That's happening to some extent with the NBN, although as the government want NBNCO to make a profit it can only be cross subsidy.

In regards to emissions, I agree with you also, But my counter agruement would be that we have a clean sheet to work with meaining inefficiecies seen in the current setup of say, Adelaide could be avoided (PT intergrated into the growth).

It would actually be harder to integrate PT into the growth of a city where the demand isn't already there than it would be to integrate it into the growth of Adelaide.

its a pie in the sky idea, but one I think worth exploring. I'm still not convinced it should be Murray Bridge, something further away from Adelaide would be better, mainly to avoid overlap with services and business that already exist

Avoiding overlap means losing the benefit of the attractions of Adelaide. It's no coincidence that Queensland's population's concentrated in the SE.

But I really think this discussion is taking entirely the wrong approach. Rather than building a major population hub for its own sake, we should look at each region of SA and determine whether it needs more people, and if so, why it does,how they can be accommodated and how they can be attracted. The size of the city may be one factor that attracts them, but it would be very difficult to make a city big enough to do that.

Aidan wrote:I wonder if there's any way of following Canberra's example? Originally it was dominated by a single industry (albeit not one that there was any risk of losing). Now in terms of desirability of moving there it's a serious rival to the big five.

Canberra's 'example' is not cheap. The federal government, for all intents an purposes, imports people at great expense. Generally the most generous relocation packages are moving to Canberra. The wages once you get here are generous and the work is... public sector . If Canberra's one big industry was run by the private sector, Canberra wouldn't exist.

so I'm back on my favorite topic

After having a chat to some rellies in Bendigo we were talking about the increase in the area with both Bendigle and Ballarat now well over the 100k mark.

whilst in SA we have managed to get Mount Gambier to what 23k? with Mildura a place very similar to SA centres hitting 50k on the border of SA/VIC.

It appears to me, after discussions with people in the growing areas, an increase in the public services in the area has been the dirver of population growth in these towns.

FFS Bendigo is building a $600M new hospital whilst in SA we close them down if they are not located in the central CBD.

how would we go about lobbying the government - now it is ex Rann to start looking at regional deveopment seriously.

With the mining boom coming on, an investment into the future of the state as a whole rather than just Adelaide needs to be reviewed.

Waewick wrote: Mildura a place ....... on the border of SA/VIC.

Seriously?

I seem to remember crossing the border about 45 minutes before getting to Mildura.

well yes, 45 miutes so what 70kms? - I gather you haven't driven much in rural australia? in the context of Australia it is virtually on the Border.

but thanks for picking me up on that

Waewick wrote:I gather you haven't driven much in rural australia?

Probably more than most people - driving the rural roads of South Australia was my job for a couple of decades; and interstate, I've driven more roads than most people I know. I used to drive to Mildura regularly (every couple of weeks) for a couple of years. In my book someone who considers a 70km drive "on the border" is someone who has not driven much in rural Australia.

That aside, Mildura is a service hub for large area of horticulture, and the only large town (probably large enough to be a city) in that area. Red Cliffs and Merbein are nowhere near as big, and Irymple is virtually part of Mildura now.

In South Australia, for whatever reason, the 5 reasonable towns of Renmark, Berri, Loxton, Barmera and Waikerie service a similar sized area of horticulture. Each of these are bigger than Red Cliffs and Merbein, but none as large as Mildura. One wonders if these 5 reasonable sized towns were one town, how big would it be, and would that size attract more industry, making it even larger? Never gonna happen, I know....

Waewick wrote:whilst in SA we have managed to get Mount Gambier to what 23k? with Mildura a place very similar to SA centres hitting 50k on the border of SA/VIC.

It appears to me, after discussions with people in the growing areas, an increase in the public services in the area has been the dirver of population growth in these towns.

As a person that spent majority of my childhood in Mildura and still occasionally go up there to see family and friends, it's on the border of VIC/NSW and 120km roughly from the SA border. The 50-60k figure is for the entire Mildura Rural City Council area which stretches across nearly the entire north-western part of Victoria, with the city actually having a population of around 30,000.

Mildura is a nice relaxing place to visit or start a family. Though over history, Mildura has turned it's back on the stunning Murray River location and sprawled far west. This has seen the development of a large retail precinct west of the city, which now overshadows the CBD in terms of retailing.

There has been a push for more activity around the CBD/riverbank with the development of a marina complex and upgrade of the city mall, but most of the retail development is still along Fifteen Street and probably always will be. The things that drive Mildura isn't really the public services, but agricultural, tourism and climate. The Sunraysia District (which includes Mildura) is known as Victoria's food bowl, supplying majority of citrus fruits and grap-production for the state.

The only SA town I believe that has any real similarities with Mildura, would be Renmark. With both towns having a long wide boulevard and grid-like numbered streets (13th st etc), all designed by George Chaffey. Even Mildura is very different to most Victorian towns.

With Mildura being closer to Adelaide than Melbourne, the town has many close connections with South Australia. There was even talk from the local council last decade about joining our state or NSW, too stop a nearby planned toxic waste dump.

Mildura really isn't that bad - apart from getting stabbed, for some reason I have had a number of friends who have been stabbed in Mildura

Renamrk is very similar to Mildura in that aspect you are right.

The biggest problem with the Riverlandis their is effectively 8 or 9 reginoal centres in an area which a place like Mildura services.

Renmark and Berri have a combing population of around 20k I believe and the riverland area as a whole about 30k

the biggest issue facing the Riverland is uncertainty on water supply means a significant shortage of avaliable work - so people move out.

However, with a bit of leadership from the state government and some investment in alternate industries (Almond Co is now huge) as well as support for the existing enterprises - I cannot see why Renmakr or Berri couldn't hit the 30k mark as stand alone

this would rely heavily on improvement is PT to the area but wouldn't be impossible.

the other areas have been discussed, but need State Government involvement to really have any momentum.

rhino wrote:

Waewick wrote:I gather you haven't driven much in rural australia?

Probably more than most people - driving the rural roads of South Australia was my job for a couple of decades; and interstate, I've driven more roads than most people I know. I used to drive to Mildura regularly (every couple of weeks) for a couple of years. In my book someone who considers a 70km drive "on the border" is someone who has not driven much in rural Australia.

That aside, Mildura is a service hub for large area of horticulture, and the only large town (probably large enough to be a city) in that area. Red Cliffs and Merbein are nowhere near as big, and Irymple is virtually part of Mildura now.

In South Australia, for whatever reason, the 5 reasonable towns of Renmark, Berri, Loxton, Barmera and Waikerie service a similar sized area of horticulture. Each of these are bigger than Red Cliffs and Merbein, but none as large as Mildura. One wonders if these 5 reasonable sized towns were one town, how big would it be, and would that size attract more industry, making it even larger? Never gonna happen, I know....

missed your post which I basically copied now I have read yours

I have driven a stupendous amount in regional SA, most weekend I'm 5-6 hours in the car usually around the Riverland, but often up to the mid north.

as for the density of horticulture, I can't answer that - they all grow similar things the only think I can suggest is the Riverland is on a bigger scale and needs less people - but I have nothing to back that up with

I agree about places like Renmark. It's only a few hours from Adelaide, riverfront location, direct access to Sydney (well 1200km) and is already planned much better than other towns across the state. Not to mention, a better climate than say Mt Gambier or Victor Harbor.

Would be good if Renmark had a direct airline service to Adelaide, that would boast business and population.