Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

[Dog]

That's how Labor left it till Abbott promised to cut $500 m before the election. Triggering this whole mess!


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[pushbutton]

I might have missed something (if I have please feel free to fill me in) but as far as I know in the short time Abbot has been PM the only thing he has said or done in relation to Holden is say that the existing assistance package is still there for them, but there will be no more!

That sounds very sensible, and even very generous to me. I don't see how this coalition government can be blamed for Holdens closure. Possibly the previous (labour) government could be partly to blame for the fact they didn't raise tarrifs or the fact they allowed the situation previously mentioned where it's s difficult to raise tarrifs on imported vehicles.

I don't blame either the current or previous government. I do blame Holden because they failed to keep up to date with the sort of vehicles people will buy now and in the future. They failed to innovate sufficiently, and they did try a last minute effort to make workers conditions more realistic, but that was far too little and done far too late!

At the end of the day, we live in a free market economy and the government should play no role in propping up businesses which are not viable in the long term. The economy will adapt and new jobs will be created elsewhere which are more sustainable.

Not quite right the Abbott Government took $500m off the table earmarked by the Labor government with additional still committed by the state government. (not a broken promise because he said he would do it before the election) that's what triggered the whole GM review, till that point Holden's had agreed to build two new models at Elizabeth, both front wheel drive based on world cars, one a replacement of the Commodore and the other the next cruise.

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I didn't realise that, but I stand by my point that the government should not be propping up unviable businesses.

[Dog]

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[serca]

To the people who are pointing their finger at Abbott, what do you have to say about Ford and Mitsubishi shutting up shop under the Labor Government?

[serca]

Dog no need to go so political and put the fear factor in people about the Coalition. Especially when we just broke free from the most unproductive, incompetent, in house fighting pansies to govern our country to date.

[SRW]

Of course the closure of GM Holden is directly attributable to the Abbott Government. Holden gave every indication that it was prepared to continue manufacturing into the next decade so long as government assistance was forthcoming. The Abbott Government not only cut such assistance, but put ongoing industry assistance under review -- a review Abbott proved a farce by pre-empting its findings and insisting last Friday that no further funds would be forthcoming. His Treasurer and Deputy PM subsequently (and unbelievably) attacked the company in Parliament and goaded it to leave -- an unedifying game of political hot potato to force Holden to make the decision before the Coalition would ultimately make it for them.

Now I can understand the free market arguments, but it has to be acknowledged that the Australian automotive industry was not on a level playing field internationally -- not simply because of labor costs (which are overplayed), but because of the trade, industrial and monetary policy of competitor countries. Under such circumstances, I personally think that ongoing and substantial industrial assistance is justifiable. But even if you don't, surely you can't think that it's appropriate to hasten the demise of an industry without a transition plan that maintains and grows the manufacturing sector! Because now it appears that Australia's economic base is headed towards being entirely dependent on vulnerable consumptive industries, and within the OECD we will rank as an industrial power only slightly above Luxembourg. Given that, who in the Abbott Government is actually planning for the future?

To the people who are pointing their finger at Abbott, what do you have to say about Ford and Mitsubishi shutting up shop under the Labor Government?

I haven't much to say about Ford, apart from the fact that without an export plan, it was never really committed to staying in Australia. But to pin Mitsubishi's decision on the former Government is pretty disingenuous, given its management had made its decision prior to the 2007 election. The Coalition knows that, and it's been very clever in its wording in the House to avoid explicitly saying otherwise, lest they get caught misleading Parliament.

[JAKJ]

Holden produce a good product (just google the reviews for the new Chevrolet SS and the Pontiac G8/ GTO still have a cult following in the US) that GM could and should have marketed off-sure as a niche model, a cut-price rival to the 5 series/ E-Class. If it was offered in the world's top ten markets the sales volume would have been sufficient to make Australian production viable.

Australia's appetite for large sedans was never going to keep Holden viable no matter how amazing the product was and the cost of producing multiple model lines of existing mass market products (e.g. the Cruze) that could be imported cheaper from overseas would not make sense either.

GM has a big part to blame in the miss-management of it's Holden asset. It is a fantastic product that all Australian's should be proud of. Also, If you look at some of the top designers/ engineers across GM you would be surprised to find how many have Australian/ Holden origins.

[Dog]

Holden produce a good product (just google the reviews for the new Chevrolet SS and the Pontiac G8/ GTO still have a cult following in the US) that GM could and should have marketed off-sure as a niche model, a cut-price rival to the 5 series/ E-Class. If it was offered in the world's top ten markets the sales volume would have been sufficient to make Australian production viable.

Australia's appetite for large sedans was never going to keep Holden viable no matter how amazing the product was and the cost of producing multiple model lines of existing mass market products (e.g. the Cruze) that could be imported cheaper from overseas would not make sense either.

GM has a big part to blame in the miss-management of it's Holden asset. It is a fantastic product that all Australian's should be proud of. Also, If you look at some of the top designers/ engineers across GM you would be surprised to find how many have Australian/ Holden origins.

Totally agree well said!


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[ozisnowman]

No surprise this has happened. You can blame GM, you could blame the Abbott Government and you can blame previous Labour Government, but blaming these is just plain wrong. Aussies have become more sophisticated yuppies that want to drives Mercedes, Audi's, BMW's, Jaguar's, Porsches, Honda's, the list goes on. These can be in some models be bought for not much more than a Holden. Others buy Hyundia's, Kia's etc not as good in quality but a lot cheaper than a Holden.
Holden's were too expensive for what it was a very average built car.

[pushbutton]

I had two Holdens and had nothing but trouble with them. Since then I've had 3 Hyundais and can't think of a bad thing to say about any of them.

[rev]

yes, Holden closing in Abbott and Hockeys fault

lets all vote for Wetherill

Firstly, grow up..
Or are you looking for another argument? Because I'll quite happily engage in one with you if that's what you're after..but this time try and keep your cool without resorting to insults and abuse because you lack any sufficient counter arguments.


So you are saying that GM's decision to end production in Australia by 2017 is not the fault of Abbott and Hockey?
Really? I explained it in my post...but as usual, you're just shit stirring to try start another confrontation.

GMH was committed to continuing production in Australia till at least 2022 with new models after 2016 when the current VF Commodore run would end. They would have introduced a new front wheel drive model to replace the Commodore based on a global platform. The global base platform with shared components across multiple brands intended to reduce costs.
This was contingent on government assistance.

Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, the two so called wannabe economic geniuses who are going to save Australia, decided to pull 500 million in assistance to the car industry. And therefore, GM has now decided to end production in Australia as a direct result of that government decision by your idols.

Didn't your idol Abbott say Holden would be better off under a Liberal government then a Labor government? Did he mean better off as in it wont exist anymore?

And to pushbutton and whomever else that thinks our government shouldn't provide assistance...everyone other first world economy with car manufacturing provides assistance to their industries.

But hey, lets lose another industry and hundreds of thousands of jobs and tens of billions from the economy.
I'm sure the 2,000 workers in Elizabeth, and thousands more component workers will magically find a job the day after they get laid off. Because you know, there's an abundance of jobs out there.

Some of you should just go back to worrying about whether there's beer in your fridge only. You clearly can't see the bigger picture.
We've been maneuvered into a trade position which is harmful to Australia's interests by successive governments of both political parties. And that's why we have lost so much of our manufacturing. Not because wages are too high(holden workers average salary is just under 50,000)...but because of trade agreements and what have you where we have been bent over the kitchen sink.

And interestingly, for the obvious Liberal Abbott Hockey apologists, one Liberal MP thinks Holden workers are paid three times more then they should. So what, waewik, Holden workers should work for under 20,000?

[Waewick]

Firstly, grow up..
Or are you looking for another argument? Because I'll quite happily engage in one with you if that's what you're after..but this time try and keep your cool without resorting to insults and abuse because you lack any sufficient counter arguments.

Haha, you crack me up, if calling out your ignorance is considered a personal insult then well that is what it is.

Your inability to argue the point is also not my problem.

So you are saying that GM's decision to end production in Australia by 2017 is not the fault of Abbott and Hockey?
Really? I explained it in my post...but as usual, you're just shit stirring to try start another confrontation.

GMH was committed to continuing production in Australia till at least 2022 with new models after 2016 when the current VF Commodore run would end. They would have introduced a new front wheel drive model to replace the Commodore based on a global platform. The global base platform with shared components across multiple brands intended to reduce costs.
This was contingent on government assistance.

Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, the two so called wannabe economic geniuses who are going to save Australia, decided to pull 500 million in assistance to the car industry. And therefore, GM has now decided to end production in Australia as a direct result of that government decision by your idols.

Didn't your idol Abbott say Holden would be better off under a Liberal government then a Labor government? Did he mean better off as in it wont exist anymore?

And to pushbutton and whomever else that thinks our government shouldn't provide assistance...everyone other first world economy with car manufacturing provides assistance to their industries.

But hey, lets lose another industry and hundreds of thousands of jobs and tens of billions from the economy.
I'm sure the 2,000 workers in Elizabeth, and thousands more component workers will magically find a job the day after they get laid off. Because you know, there's an abundance of jobs out there.

Some of you should just go back to worrying about whether there's beer in your fridge only. You clearly can't see the bigger picture.
We've been maneuvered into a trade position which is harmful to Australia's interests by successive governments of both political parties. And that's why we have lost so much of our manufacturing. Not because wages are too high(holden workers average salary is just under 50,000)...but because of trade agreements and what have you where we have been bent over the kitchen sink.

And interestingly, for the obvious Liberal Abbott Hockey apologists, one Liberal MP

thinks Holden workers are paid three times more then they should. So what, waewik, Holden workers should work for under 20,000?
.

Firstly, when you start a post complaining about personal attacks and the like, you should then try to avoid utilising emotive language that makes huge assumptions about a person and then making cloak and dagger digs at their intelligence.

For instance, Tony Abbott is not my Idol, I actually don’t really like him and didn’t vote for him.

Also, I have the capacity to think broadly, that is what I am employed to do, that being said having my intelligence questioned by people like just adds to variety of this board, so keep it up.

What I do believe is that GMH was essentially holding all Australian Governments to ransom, it is just Howard, Rudd/Gillard were happy to pay the ransom to keep the votes. Abbott has now put his political future on the line but not.

Under their demands there is the capacity to build cars, as long as the fit into the global supply chain and there is no local innovation.

As everyone both Labor and Liberal have pointed out, Holden build cars that not many people want, and GMH does not allow them to develop cars that 1) more Australians want and 2) can be exported to a wider variety of countries.

So basically, we are throwing billions of dollars at Detroit for the privilege of building cars that not even GMH really want.

Yes, other countries do throw cash at car companies, but generally these countries have the HQ, meaning there is innovation and value add, not grinding out things no one wants. If not the countries generally don’t have much else to offer outside wuper low wages.

I will be interested to see what happens with the components markets, from what I can understand from conversations with intelligent people, most, if not all of the component builders in Australia saw this coming and have either shut up shop or made contingency plans.

How the Govt assist these companies with becoming globally competitive will be interesting.

Personally, I would actually like to see SA Government by the Elizabeth plan via a wholly owned investment company – that is the employees aren’t government employed.

That way we can have a car company that allows innovation and development and we can influence the outcome of the cars being manufactured here, not just told to build things for the sake of it.

And finally, no we haven’t lost jobs just because of wages (it doesn’t help) but wages are the only element of employment costs – think Super, rostered days of and other allowances which are even greater and are a burden compared to Asian neighbours.

That being said, the AUD has hurt a lot of manufacturing, but really Holden is all about not being able to build a large market and being part of a global chain that just doesn’t see us as important.

[rev]

For someone who apparently is on a crusade against ignorance, you are extremely ignorant(among other things which I wont repeat here).

I wont waste my time, you are a waste of oxygen, and bandwidth.
Hopefully you don't crack too much.

[Waewick]

For someone who apparently is on a crusade against ignorance, you are extremely ignorant(among other things which I wont repeat here).

I wont waste my time, you are a waste of oxygen, and bandwidth.
Hopefully you don't crack too much.

so I can assume you have no answers and are incapable of entering into a rational debate in which your POV isn't the only option?

I really think you should avoid entering into debates when you clearly don't have the capacity/ability to follow through with your initial rants.

I really enjoy this board, there are people here who provide great insights into the developments in Adelaide, something I am really interested in.

it is a shame that people like you feel the need to come on here, degrade the conversation and then abandon ship when challenged leaving an ugly conversation which is not a true reflection of the normal quality on here.

[Dog]

"Toyota stands to become one of the most heavily subsidised car manufacturers since the birth of Holden in 1948, as federal and state governments enter desperate negotiations to try to keep the Japanese company operating.
In the wake of Ford and Holden's announcements they will shut their Australian operations, Toyota stands to become the primary beneficiary of the federal government's $2 billion Automotive Transformation Scheme." (Sydney morning Herald)


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... z2nJRiVQ8B


Where does this leave all you pro liberals that have been supporting Abbott's hard line with GMH and your arguments about viability and market forces, this policy on the run, what a shambles of a government!

Is Toyota a special case because it's in Victoria?
Where's Joe Hockey Today, Is he in parliament demanding Toyota make up its mind?
Is Abbott saying he is not giving them one cent more like Holden's?
No money for Holden's Abbott has found $2bn for Toyota
Sounds more like saving his own political skin than economic rationalism.




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