Sensational-Adelaide.com

drsmith wrote:Despite differences still remaining between the state and federal government over freight tolling, this project appears to be inching closer to reality.

http://indaily.com.au/news/2015/08/06/t ... tor-start/

Hopefully when it does get the nod, it will be a full length single stage build.

Something that I've noticed recently is the construction of a large service station on the western side of the PWR on vacant land just south of the Bolivar Road intersection. Is this to replace the Caltex just to the north ?

Nope in competition.

This states needs so real pollies.

Put a toll on you weak so and so's

drsmith wrote:Despite differences still remaining between the state and federal government over freight tolling, this project appears to be inching closer to reality.

http://indaily.com.au/news/2015/08/06/t ... tor-start/

Hopefully when it does get the nod, it will be a full length single stage build.

Something that I've noticed recently is the construction of a large service station on the western side of the PWR on vacant land just south of the Bolivar Road intersection. Is this to replace the Caltex just to the north ?

No, it's an OTR with a krispy kreme

Waewick wrote:

drsmith wrote:Despite differences still remaining between the state and federal government over freight tolling, this project appears to be inching closer to reality.

http://indaily.com.au/news/2015/08/06/t ... tor-start/

Hopefully when it does get the nod, it will be a full length single stage build.

Something that I've noticed recently is the construction of a large service station on the western side of the PWR on vacant land just south of the Bolivar Road intersection. Is this to replace the Caltex just to the north ?

Nope in competition.

This states needs so real pollies.

Put a toll on you weak so and so's

This state needs some real pollies? How is trying to prevent something that isn't necessarily good a bad thing?

IMO, the state government probably aren't budging because they know if they do, in future the federal government will only negotiate more funding for South Road if tolling for private vehicles is put in place - which should never happen.

So many of you preach that tolling private vehicles isn't that bad, look at Melbourne's tollways, the standard is $16,00 for a day pass. Melbourne has a significant amount more traffic than Adelaide, so how much more will they charge here to make their return on investment?

Patrick_27 wrote:

Waewick wrote:

drsmith wrote:Despite differences still remaining between the state and federal government over freight tolling, this project appears to be inching closer to reality.

http://indaily.com.au/news/2015/08/06/t ... tor-start/

Hopefully when it does get the nod, it will be a full length single stage build.

Something that I've noticed recently is the construction of a large service station on the western side of the PWR on vacant land just south of the Bolivar Road intersection. Is this to replace the Caltex just to the north ?

Nope in competition.

This states needs so real pollies.

Put a toll on you weak so and so's

This state needs some real pollies? How is trying to prevent something that isn't necessarily good a bad thing?

IMO, the state government probably aren't budging because they know if they do, in future the federal government will only negotiate more funding for South Road if tolling for private vehicles is put in place - which should never happen.

So many of you preach that tolling private vehicles isn't that bad, look at Melbourne's tollways, the standard is $16,00 for a day pass. Melbourne has a significant amount more traffic than Adelaide, so how much more will they charge here to make their return on investment?

The charge will only be what can be paid.

Tolling is inevitable.

So yes, we need real pollies as opposed to the ones who have had their head in the sand for the list 15 years.

Most people are in favour of heavy vehicle tolling. This project is basically shovel ready. It's a critical infrastructure boost for SA. It provides hundreds of construction jobs during a time of high unemployment. It gives economic stimulus to the northern suburbs region. Basically its a win - win - win - win - win for the State Government on all fronts. Don't get what the hold up is? Just do it.

[Shuz] wrote:Most people are in favour of heavy vehicle tolling. This project is basically shovel ready. It's a critical infrastructure boost for SA. It provides hundreds of construction jobs during a time of high unemployment. It gives economic stimulus to the northern suburbs region. Basically its a win - win - win - win - win for the State Government on all fronts. Don't get what the hold up is? Just do it.

What I like about it is the lack of impact it will have on things like traffic, while in the long run creating another main arterial road, unlike something like South Road.

I'm just wondering what their plan is for dealing with the salt pans and swampland.

Phantom wrote:

[Shuz] wrote:Most people are in favour of heavy vehicle tolling. This project is basically shovel ready. It's a critical infrastructure boost for SA. It provides hundreds of construction jobs during a time of high unemployment. It gives economic stimulus to the northern suburbs region. Basically its a win - win - win - win - win for the State Government on all fronts. Don't get what the hold up is? Just do it.

What I like about it is the lack of impact it will have on things like traffic, while in the long run creating another main arterial road, unlike something like South Road.

I'm just wondering what their plan is for dealing with the salt pans and swampland.

Of course, the plan for the Cheetham Salt Pans is to do the same as the apple orchards of Mt Barker: cover them in crap housing!

ChillyPhilly wrote:

Phantom wrote:

[Shuz] wrote:Most people are in favour of heavy vehicle tolling. This project is basically shovel ready. It's a critical infrastructure boost for SA. It provides hundreds of construction jobs during a time of high unemployment. It gives economic stimulus to the northern suburbs region. Basically its a win - win - win - win - win for the State Government on all fronts. Don't get what the hold up is? Just do it.

What I like about it is the lack of impact it will have on things like traffic, while in the long run creating another main arterial road, unlike something like South Road.

I'm just wondering what their plan is for dealing with the salt pans and swampland.

Of course, the plan for the Cheetham Salt Pans is to do the same as the apple orchards of Mt Barker: cover them in crap housing!

Are you sure? I mean, that land would be shit to place houses on. They'd end out sinking, surely?

I can't imagine the land could be terraformed easily. Too much salt in the ground.

Maybe we could just invest billions of dollars into it and turn it into an Olympics site and then bid for that?

Phantom wrote: Are you sure? I mean, that land would be shit to place houses on. They'd end out sinking, surely?

I can't imagine the land could be terraformed easily. Too much salt in the ground.

Maybe we could just invest billions of dollars into it and turn it into an Olympics site and then bid for that?

Well West Lakes and Mawson Lakes have held up okay so far. It would be a lot harder to make the ground suitable to build on but it wouldn't be impossible. I assume they'd have to remove a few meters of dirt off the top and fill it in with someone else, depends on how deep the salt goes

Phantom wrote:

ChillyPhilly wrote:

Phantom wrote: What I like about it is the lack of impact it will have on things like traffic, while in the long run creating another main arterial road, unlike something like South Road.

I'm just wondering what their plan is for dealing with the salt pans and swampland.

Of course, the plan for the Cheetham Salt Pans is to do the same as the apple orchards of Mt Barker: cover them in crap housing!

Are you sure? I mean, that land would be shit to place houses on. They'd end out sinking, surely?

I can't imagine the land could be terraformed easily. Too much salt in the ground.

Maybe we could just invest billions of dollars into it and turn it into an Olympics site and then bid for that?

Afraid so! First mooted in the glorified toilet magazine that the State Government referred to as the 30 Year Plan for Greater Adelaide. I think the land was purchased a while ago by a developer; don't quote me on that though.

Don't be silly. Generic and climate-unsuitable Legoland development in an area with absolutely nothing is more important!

The land requires the northern connector which will be raised to act as a barricade for the flood sea water that normally fills the area.

The road is vital to the residential build.

I imagine the salt pans will be dug out and new top soil placed. After that I don't think the land will be any worse than other land close to a sea.

bits wrote:The land requires the northern connector which will be raised to act as a barricade for the flood sea water that normally fills the area.

The road is vital to the residential build.

I imagine the salt pans will be dug out and new top soil placed. After that I don't think the land will be any worse than other land close to a sea.

There shouldn't be any residential build there, that's the thing. No better or different to Buckland Park honestly.

[Shuz] wrote:Don't get what the hold up is?

A state Gov with a pathological stance on tolling, and a useless state opposition.

ChillyPhilly wrote:

bits wrote:The land requires the northern connector which will be raised to act as a barricade for the flood sea water that normally fills the area.

The road is vital to the residential build.

I imagine the salt pans will be dug out and new top soil placed. After that I don't think the land will be any worse than other land close to a sea.

There shouldn't be any residential build there, that's the thing. No better or different to Buckland Park honestly.

I disagree, I see the development of the salt pans and Bolivar as infill development and something that should be encouraged.

Rather that, than the suburban sprawl edging closer to Freeling and McLean Vale.

Claybro,

Both of those things might be true, but they aren't the fundamental reason.

First of all, governments have downsized so much they can't, literally can't do the work themselves. Concepts, yes. Fly through videos, yes. Flash presentations , yes. But actually design, document, supervise construction? No. No possible way. And you cannot build that competence overnight. It takes a generation to do that, and governments of both persuasions have let it happen.

Ok, so it can only happen with a PPP, with funding, detail design, construction by the private sector.

Now here's where the problem lies.

Let's work an example to illustrate the point :

A freeway for $10 Billion cost to build. The private sector will charge $15 Billion. Or more. As witnessed by outrageous costs elsewhere in Australia.
Macquarie bank will add $100 Million in "fees".
Private sector bankers will charge 8% pa interest via complicated transactions designed to avoid tax.
That's roughly $1.2Bn per year.
Given the financial failures of such projects previously (Clem Jones tunnel in Brisbane), the private sector is demanding state governments guarantee to pick up the shortfall.

End result, drivers pay tolls AND taxpayers pay $1.2 Billion per year.

Let's say we had not ditched public sector expertise, and could actually build the thing ourselves. Hahaha.

Assume that the $10 Billion Private sector cost became $12 Billion if managed by the public sector.
Funding for that at a bond rate of 3% means a funding cost of $360 Million per year.

Basically, the fundamental problem is that because we got rid of our in house technical ability, something that should cost $360 Million per year, would cost $1.2 Billion. And Labor governments are baulking (like Victoria and South Australia ).

Both parties competed to reduce public sector numbers, and this is where they came from. We loved it and voted for them. So now we have a choice: be royally shafted, or do without the infrastructure. It's our own fault, too bad.