News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

[dbl96]

There is clearly demand on the Adelaide - Vietnam route. It’s one of the biggest migrant communities in Adelaide, heaps of international students too, and it’s increasingly a leisure destination for Australians. Adelaide Airports own data shows there is high demand.

I think the problem, as others have already pointed out, is that Vietjet’s flights are not actually direct flights. If you have to stopover in Perth, it’s not much to incentivise people to switch over. In many cases it may well be quicker, cheaper and not much less convenient to fly there with a much better known airline via a stopover on the Australian east coast or in Singapore/KL. Vietjet doesn’t have a lot of brand recognition, especially in less worldly market like Adelaide, so if they want to attract customers, they have to undercut the competition in terms of price x convenience, and I don’t get the impression that they have managed to achieve that.

[abc]

There is clearly demand on the Adelaide - Vietnam route. It’s one of the biggest migrant communities in Adelaide, heaps of international students too, and it’s increasingly a leisure destination for Australians. Adelaide Airports own data shows there is high demand.

I think the problem, as others have already pointed out, is that Vietjet’s flights are not actually direct flights. If you have to stopover in Perth, it’s not much to incentivise people to switch over. In many cases it may well be quicker, cheaper and not much less convenient to fly there with a much better known airline via a stopover on the Australian east coast or in Singapore/KL. Vietjet doesn’t have a lot of brand recognition, especially in less worldly market like Adelaide, so if they want to attract customers, they have to undercut the competition in terms of price x convenience, and I don’t get the impression that they have managed to achieve that.

if the plane is barely 50% full its not clear demand. The size of the community in Adelaide is miniscule compared to the 4 major cities.

[VinyTapestry849]

There is clearly demand on the Adelaide - Vietnam route. It’s one of the biggest migrant communities in Adelaide, heaps of international students too, and it’s increasingly a leisure destination for Australians. Adelaide Airports own data shows there is high demand.

I think the problem, as others have already pointed out, is that Vietjet’s flights are not actually direct flights. If you have to stopover in Perth, it’s not much to incentivise people to switch over. In many cases it may well be quicker, cheaper and not much less convenient to fly there with a much better known airline via a stopover on the Australian east coast or in Singapore/KL. Vietjet doesn’t have a lot of brand recognition, especially in less worldly market like Adelaide, so if they want to attract customers, they have to undercut the competition in terms of price x convenience, and I don’t get the impression that they have managed to achieve that.

if the plane is barely 50% full its not clear demand. The size of the community in Adelaide is miniscule compared to the 4 major cities.

No abc, he means that by not having a direct route to Vietnam it is not incentivising the Vietnam community to use the route. There is demand for the route. It’s just that if it was a direct route, it would be used a lot more

[dbl96]

There is clearly demand on the Adelaide - Vietnam route. It’s one of the biggest migrant communities in Adelaide, heaps of international students too, and it’s increasingly a leisure destination for Australians. Adelaide Airports own data shows there is high demand.

I think the problem, as others have already pointed out, is that Vietjet’s flights are not actually direct flights. If you have to stopover in Perth, it’s not much to incentivise people to switch over. In many cases it may well be quicker, cheaper and not much less convenient to fly there with a much better known airline via a stopover on the Australian east coast or in Singapore/KL. Vietjet doesn’t have a lot of brand recognition, especially in less worldly market like Adelaide, so if they want to attract customers, they have to undercut the competition in terms of price x convenience, and I don’t get the impression that they have managed to achieve that.

if the plane is barely 50% full its not clear demand. The size of the community in Adelaide is miniscule compared to the 4 major cities.

No abc, he means that by not having a direct route to Vietnam it is not incentivising the Vietnam community to use the route. There is demand for the route. It’s just that if it was a direct route, it would be used a lot more

There is clear demand in that Adelaide Airport's own data shows that ADL-SGN is one of Adelaide Airport's busiest unserved routes, and there are more passengers travelling indirectly between those two ports than there are travelling between ADL and some other ports which do have direct service.

What I am saying is that Vietjet planes are most likely only 50% full not because there is no demand for travel between Adelaide and Vietnam, but because a substantial portion of the passengers on the ADL-SGN route are continuing to chose other options. What Vietjet are offering can't be attractive enough to incentivise them over options requiring one stopover (like Singapore Airlines, Jetstar, Vietnam Airlines).

[VinyTapestry849]

China Southern resume on 12th of December

Apparently its a trial period with government funding

[abc]

if the plane is barely 50% full its not clear demand. The size of the community in Adelaide is miniscule compared to the 4 major cities.

No abc, he means that by not having a direct route to Vietnam it is not incentivising the Vietnam community to use the route. There is demand for the route. It’s just that if it was a direct route, it would be used a lot more

There is clear demand in that Adelaide Airport's own data shows that ADL-SGN is one of Adelaide Airport's busiest unserved routes, and there are more passengers travelling indirectly between those two ports than there are travelling between ADL and some other ports which do have direct service.

What I am saying is that Vietjet planes are most likely only 50% full not because there is no demand for travel between Adelaide and Vietnam, but because a substantial portion of the passengers on the ADL-SGN route are continuing to chose other options. What Vietjet are offering can't be attractive enough to incentivise them over options requiring one stopover (like Singapore Airlines, Jetstar, Vietnam Airlines).

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

[rubberman]

No abc, he means that by not having a direct route to Vietnam it is not incentivising the Vietnam community to use the route. There is demand for the route. It’s just that if it was a direct route, it would be used a lot more

There is clear demand in that Adelaide Airport's own data shows that ADL-SGN is one of Adelaide Airport's busiest unserved routes, and there are more passengers travelling indirectly between those two ports than there are travelling between ADL and some other ports which do have direct service.

What I am saying is that Vietjet planes are most likely only 50% full not because there is no demand for travel between Adelaide and Vietnam, but because a substantial portion of the passengers on the ADL-SGN route are continuing to chose other options. What Vietjet are offering can't be attractive enough to incentivise them over options requiring one stopover (like Singapore Airlines, Jetstar, Vietnam Airlines).

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

Hint: add "by direct connection from Adelaide"

They are saying that there are very many passengers leaving Adelaide and ending up in Saigon, oops, Ho Chi Minh City. That is, they want to go ADL - SGN by the planeload, but there's no airline doing that.

So many passengers ADL - SGN via various intermediate stops = busy

Zero flights = unserved

[rev]

China Southern resume on 12th of December

Apparently its a trial period with government funding

Yep. Adelaide - Guangzhou.

China Southern Airlines to relaunch flights between Guangzhou and Adelaide
A major international airline will relaunch flight services between Adelaide to a city in China, later this year.

Agnes Gichuhi
less than 2 min read
September 15, 2024 - 2:13PM

A major international airline will be landing back in Adelaide at the end of the year, in a move expected to significantly boost the state’s tourism and trade.

From Wednesday December 11, China Southern Airlines will officially relaunch their return international services between Guangzhou, China, and Adelaide, flying three times a week.

The first flight will land in Adelaide on Thursday, December 12 at 9.55am.

Non-stop flights will depart every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday from Guangzhou at 11.15pm (local time) and arrive in Adelaide by 9.55am.

While Guangzhou bound flights will leave Adelaide at 11.30am and arrive by 6.05pm.

Passengers will fly on the airline’s Boeing Dreamliner 787-8, and will have access to an extra 798 seats per week.

Premier Peter Malinauskas said the relaunch will see “millions of dollars injected into our state” every year.

“Building airline capacity has been a priority for the government from the start, as we work to bring back international visitors in South Australia who are not just here for a holiday, but those ready to invest in businesses, education, and exports,” Mr Malinauskas said.

China Southern Airlines will also enable more connections between South Australia and Asia, the Middle East, Africa, Europe and North America

The airline first launched their services in December 2016, before operations halted in March 2020 as a result of the global pandemic.

The state government expects to generate more than $69 million per year from the relaunch of flight services and create up to 255 full-time equivalent tourism related jobs in our state.

Minister for Tourism, Zoe Bettison said the state’s international market – that was once worth $384 million – is “now at an highest of $1.3 billion.”

“The three weekly China Southern Airlines flights will make South Australia that much more enticing for potential visitors from China,” Ms Bettison said.

In June, The Advertiser reported China Southern Airlines was one of two major airlines to likely reboot their services to Adelaide.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... nt-1-SCORE

[dbl96]

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

Presumably calculated based on the number of people booking through tickets with a transfer somewhere. I'm not sure whether it picks up people who transfer between different airlines to get to their destination.

This list was pre-covid, so take it with a grain of salt: https://infogram.com/adl-traffic-foreca ... y9xzkdx6km .

At that point in time, the top unserved international destinations were ordered as follows:
1. London
2. Delhi
3. Christchurch
4. Ho Chi Minh
5. Los Angeles
6. Tokyo
7. Phuket
8. Shanghai
9. Beijing
10. Bangkok

All ten I've listed were above 20,000 passengers per annum, which is about as many passengers as Fiji Airways carries from Adelaide every year. Ho Chi Minh was at around 31k, which is higher than destinations like Los Angeles and Tokyo which are often cited as possible future destinations from Adelaide. Of course, none of this takes into account the induced demand that typically comes when you have direct flights. Direct flights open up possibilities for travel which weren't there before - they are generally substantially cheaper and quicker.

[rev]

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

Presumably calculated based on the number of people booking through tickets with a transfer somewhere. I'm not sure whether it picks up people who transfer between different airlines to get to their destination.

This list was pre-covid, so take it with a grain of salt: https://infogram.com/adl-traffic-foreca ... y9xzkdx6km .

At that point in time, the top unserved international destinations were ordered as follows:
1. London
2. Delhi
3. Christchurch
4. Ho Chi Minh
5. Los Angeles
6. Tokyo
7. Phuket
8. Shanghai
9. Beijing
10. Bangkok

All ten I've listed were above 20,000 passengers per annum, which is about as many passengers as Fiji Airways carries from Adelaide every year. Ho Chi Minh was at around 31k, which is higher than destinations like Los Angeles and Tokyo which are often cited as possible future destinations from Adelaide. Of course, none of this takes into account the induced demand that typically comes when you have direct flights. Direct flights open up possibilities for travel which weren't there before - they are generally substantially cheaper and quicker.

Interesting list. You forgot Auckland with 49,232 which would come in at 2nd.
Wouldn't be surprised to see traffic to Delhi increase if the Indian migrant population keeps growing.

From the airports perspective direct or more direct (one stop over?) flights to these destinations makes sense.
I still think Tokyo and Los Angeles should be a priority for the government to foster such routes. Because of the defence ties with the US and potential investment from both Japan and the USA. Both are two of the most advanced economies in the world, the US is the largest single consumer market in the world still. The potential economic benefits outside of tourism are greater with Japan and the USA then with India or Vietnam or Thailand.
I think the type of passenger traffic should be taken into consideration as well. I would assume most of the traffic to Delhi and Ho Chi Minh for example is migrants going back to see family more so then actual tourists with no connection to Adelaide.

Is there a magic number traffic wise that the airport or airlines look for before considering direct or flights with 1 stop over.

[dbl96]

Interesting list. You forgot Auckland with 49,232 which would come in at 2nd.

Auckland is already served direct by Air New Zealand. I should clarify - that list in the link also includes "underserved" destinations - ones where there is already direct connectivity but there is a substantial number of passengers who still travel there indirectly. Auckland is in this category, along with Denpasar and Hong Kong, according to the table (note this was before Cathay stopped flying). This would suggest that there is demand for the airlines to increase frequency or for new airlines to compete on those routes.

Is there a magic number traffic wise that the airport or airlines look for before considering direct or flights with 1 stop over.

I am no expert, but I'm guessing it might be somewhere around 20-30k p/a for a minimal direct connection to be viable, considering Fiji Airways makes it work at 20k, but Vietjet seems to be struggling and they got to 16k between Nov 23 and June 24 (7 months) according to Wikipedia.

That would be for just 2-3 flights a week on a narrowbody aircraft. For daily service on bigger aircraft, you would need much bigger numbers. For indication, KL, Doha, Singapore and Denpasar all have passenger numbers in the hundreds of thousands from Adelaide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Airport

[VinyTapestry849]

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

Presumably calculated based on the number of people booking through tickets with a transfer somewhere. I'm not sure whether it picks up people who transfer between different airlines to get to their destination.

This list was pre-covid, so take it with a grain of salt: https://infogram.com/adl-traffic-foreca ... y9xzkdx6km .

At that point in time, the top unserved international destinations were ordered as follows:
1. London
2. Delhi
3. Christchurch
4. Ho Chi Minh
5. Los Angeles
6. Tokyo
7. Phuket
8. Shanghai
9. Beijing
10. Bangkok

All ten I've listed were above 20,000 passengers per annum, which is about as many passengers as Fiji Airways carries from Adelaide every year. Ho Chi Minh was at around 31k, which is higher than destinations like Los Angeles and Tokyo which are often cited as possible future destinations from Adelaide. Of course, none of this takes into account the induced demand that typically comes when you have direct flights. Direct flights open up possibilities for travel which weren't there before - they are generally substantially cheaper and quicker.

Forget London, that market is served by emirates and Qatar

Also forget Shanghai and Beijing, that market is served by China southern and Singapore airlines.

The ones on your list which have a reasonable chance of happening are Christchurch & dehli. We won’t be getting a Los Angeles route for a long long time. United airlines always start off new Oceania route with a direct flight to San Francisco purely because of the large business market there.

Idk about Tokyo, Malinauskas Went to Japan last year, and was flatly refused a direct flight when he asked the Japanese airlines. There is not enough traffic

Bangkok and Phuket are easily reachable by Singapore airlines but even if the passenger wants a cheaper alternative if they can just transit via Perth and get there under $1000.

I expect United Airlines to make wind in Adelaide before 2029, they have a large 787 order and have very much emphasised their goal to increase Their Oceania destinations. United Airlines imo is the likely next Airline to come to Adelaide

The US based Marriott hotel group’s new hotel at GPO says he expects United Airlines to arrive at Adelaide within five years too

[Patrick_27]

you'll have to explain to me what 'busiest unserved routes' means thanks.

Presumably calculated based on the number of people booking through tickets with a transfer somewhere. I'm not sure whether it picks up people who transfer between different airlines to get to their destination.

This list was pre-covid, so take it with a grain of salt: https://infogram.com/adl-traffic-foreca ... y9xzkdx6km .

At that point in time, the top unserved international destinations were ordered as follows:
1. London
2. Delhi
3. Christchurch
4. Ho Chi Minh
5. Los Angeles
6. Tokyo
7. Phuket
8. Shanghai
9. Beijing
10. Bangkok

All ten I've listed were above 20,000 passengers per annum, which is about as many passengers as Fiji Airways carries from Adelaide every year. Ho Chi Minh was at around 31k, which is higher than destinations like Los Angeles and Tokyo which are often cited as possible future destinations from Adelaide. Of course, none of this takes into account the induced demand that typically comes when you have direct flights. Direct flights open up possibilities for travel which weren't there before - they are generally substantially cheaper and quicker.

Forget London, that market is served by emirates and Qatar

Also forget Shanghai and Beijing, that market is served by China southern and Singapore airlines.

The ones on your list which have a reasonable chance of happening are Christchurch & dehli. We won’t be getting a Los Angeles route for a long long time. United airlines always start off new Oceania route with a direct flight to San Francisco purely because of the large business market there.

Idk about Tokyo, Malinauskas Went to Japan last year, and was flatly refused a direct flight when he asked the Japanese airlines. There is not enough traffic

Bangkok and Phuket are easily reachable by Singapore airlines but even if the passenger wants a cheaper alternative if they can just transit via Perth and get there under $1000.

I expect United Airlines to make wind in Adelaide before 2029, they have a large 787 order and have very much emphasised their goal to increase Their Oceania destinations. United Airlines imo is the likely next Airline to come to Adelaide

The US based Marriott hotel group’s new hotel at GPO says he expects United Airlines to arrive at Adelaide within five years too

Seasonally, I would think Tokyo and Hawaii travel would be a lot. I know personal experiences don't always translate in the figures we're provided (so feel free to rebut me on that front), but if I were to look within my own circle where people are travelling each year the four overseas destinations I always get (excluding Bali, because that's an obvious one) are Tokyo, London, Greek Islands and Hawaii. From a business/trading and visiting family POV, Christchurch and Dehli would make perfect sense and frankly, I'm surprised we're no longer connected to Christchurch (if the sister city thing actually possessed any real economic trading value). But I can see United Airlines going to Hawaii from Adelaide before they even consider LA. As for JAL, I think any decision not to include Adelaide in the mix is purely because they are focusing their expansion elsewhere in the world and they're already servicing the Australian market out of multiple cities. I feel the most disappointing reality in all of this is that our own national carrier, Qantas, doesn't service any international flights out of Adelaide; frankly that to me shows how little they care about serving their clientele. I'm also surprised that Emirates hasn't made any progress on returning to Adelaide since it left, especially considering the evidence we're provided suggests that Adelaide is doing as well, if not better, in terms of passenger numbers than it was pre-COVID.

[rogue]

Emirates have announced their return to Adelaide and this will commenced from October 28 on the B777-200LR. See: https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... ober-2024/

Maybe once Qantas receives more A220's and their new A321XLR's, this will hopefully open some international flights.
I think QF should add a flight to Auckland with an A220. This wont only cater for the NZ market, it could also be timed to tag onto Qantas AKL - JFK.
Followed by an A321XLR to Singapore. Not only to cater for Asian destinations with connections through JQ, but to also connect with QF1/QF2 London Heathrow services and codeshare partners to other destinations.

[Saltwater]

I'd rather see the Qantas A321XLR serve Christchurch. If they ever try competing to Singapore I'd hope SIA would add some scoot flights to try and beat Qantas at their own game.