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Spotto wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:17 pm

Phase 3:
Regency to Pym - 2019-22 (projected)
Torrens to Anzac - nothing
Anzac to Darlington - nothing
[/quote]

What do you think is a realistic completion date on the remaining part of the North to South Expressway if you had to guess it?

My rough prediction based on current progress... perhaps 2035? :p

HeapsGood wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:45 pm

Spotto wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:17 pm

Phase 3:
Regency to Pym - 2019-22 (projected)
Torrens to Anzac - nothing
Anzac to Darlington - nothing

What do you think is a realistic completion date on the remaining part of the North to South Expressway if you had to guess it?

My rough prediction based on current progress... perhaps 2035? :p

Well the T2T Project upgraded a little under 4km of road in approx 37 months (3 years 1 month). The Torrens to Anzac section (stopping before Gallipoli Underpass) is around 4km; Anzac to Darlington is around 5.5km.

The Torrens to Anzac Hwy section (approx 4km) except for Don Bradman to Richmond Road, is nearly all residental, so other than a few cut-and-cover tunnels where necessary, a trench similar to T2T could probably be put there. I can't imagine the cut-and-cover tunnels would be too different to the road bridges (partially excavate, install pylons, install concrete beams, excavate fully) other than covering more distance. Between Don Bradman and Richmond Road is pretty dense with businesses, so the government could either bite the bullet and acquire all that land on both sides of South Road. Or maybe acquire only one side of the road and build a longer cut-and-cover tunnel; half(-ish) the acquisition cost, takes up a narrower corridor than a trench design, and lets businesses on one side of the road stay. Roughly comprable to the T2T Project, could take 3 years and a few months considering the fact that the cut-and-cover tunnels would probably add to the timeline.

Anzac Hwy to Emerson Crossing (approx 1.1km) could just be a simple ground-level motorway, but if they really wanted to excavate a trench they could. There might be enough room in the Gallipoli Underpass to squeeze an extra lane in both ways (definitely at the very least a 3-2 road) if the bike lanes (relocated to the surface) and stopping lanes are removed and the median is replaced with a typical concrete barrier which is narrower. Emerson Crossing is a necessary upgrade: run the railway underneath Cross Road the gates feel like they're more often down than up during peak traffic. Perhaps they could make do with somehow keeping the current overpass and building around it but I have no idea if that's even possible.

Emerson Crossing to Darlington (approx 4.3km) will likely be the most tricky part. Like Don Bradman to Richmond Road, it's lined with businesses and industry with more behind those with road frontage but it's a much longer stretch of road in addition to business further back from the road. Plus there's a whole shopping centre and a few clusters of big box stores which would be next to impossible to even bother acquiring.

Emerson to Darlington would probably only be solved with a deep-bored tunnel(s). But for the length of the road, if you're bringing in a TBM for one section you might as well just do the whole lot (9.5km). 4km is a pretty short stretch for what would be an extremely expensive TBM, Adelaide is a much smaller city than our east coast sisters. And (this is the public transport side of me coming out), if the ground conditions along South Road are similar to underneath the CBD, the TBMs could maybe be adapted to finally build an underground rail link for the Gawler and Seaford lines like the Melbourne Metro Tunnel. Get our money's worth out of the TBMs.

Spotto wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:11 pm

Emerson Crossing to Darlington (approx 4.3km) will likely be the most tricky part. Like Don Bradman to Richmond Road, it's lined with businesses and industry with more behind those with road frontage but it's a much longer stretch of road in addition to business further back from the road. Plus there's a whole shopping centre and a few clusters of big box stores which would be next to impossible to even bother acquiring.

Emerson to Darlington would probably only be solved with a deep-bored tunnel(s). But for the length of the road, if you're bringing in a TBM for one section you might as well just do the whole lot (9.5km). 4km is a pretty short stretch for what would be an extremely expensive TBM, Adelaide is a much smaller city than our east coast sisters. And (this is the public transport side of me coming out), if the ground conditions along South Road are similar to underneath the CBD, the TBMs could maybe be adapted to finally build an underground rail link for the Gawler and Seaford lines like the Melbourne Metro Tunnel. Get our money's worth out of the TBMs.

Everything does hinge on this section, and I agree we'll probably end up with a tunnel for the whole route due to it. Exits at either end (obviously) and the ability to enter/exit at Anzac Highway.

Nort wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:51 am

Spotto wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:11 pm

Emerson Crossing to Darlington (approx 4.3km) will likely be the most tricky part. Like Don Bradman to Richmond Road, it's lined with businesses and industry with more behind those with road frontage but it's a much longer stretch of road in addition to business further back from the road. Plus there's a whole shopping centre and a few clusters of big box stores which would be next to impossible to even bother acquiring.

Emerson to Darlington would probably only be solved with a deep-bored tunnel(s). But for the length of the road, if you're bringing in a TBM for one section you might as well just do the whole lot (9.5km). 4km is a pretty short stretch for what would be an extremely expensive TBM, Adelaide is a much smaller city than our east coast sisters. And (this is the public transport side of me coming out), if the ground conditions along South Road are similar to underneath the CBD, the TBMs could maybe be adapted to finally build an underground rail link for the Gawler and Seaford lines like the Melbourne Metro Tunnel. Get our money's worth out of the TBMs.

Everything does hinge on this section, and I agree we'll probably end up with a tunnel for the whole route due to it. Exits at either end (obviously) and the ability to enter/exit at Anzac Highway.

The Liberal government appears to favour the tunnel solution, but also appears to be pragmatic enough to change its mind if the cost is way off the chart. The former Labor government appeared to favour short tunnels, then an elevated (a la Superway) section between Anzac Highway and Tonsley. I'm not sure if that requires a different amount of land or air rights acquisition. I don't think any version has been designed to the level of doing accurate costings yet.

The wall collapse during construction near Darlington would give rise to concerns about stability of tunnels, but might be just as bad in other ways for stability of towers carrying an elevated road.

The big plot twist is the Telstra substation near Cross Road. That'll be a fair spanner in the works of options for the area.

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:34 pm

The wall collapse during construction near Darlington would give rise to concerns about stability of tunnels, but might be just as bad in other ways for stability of towers carrying an elevated road.

The difference that they would need to advertise to people is that the Darlington walls were slanted dirt held back by shotcrete until the main panels were installed. Cut-and-cover tunnels would be similar to the sections beneath the road bridges or the entire length of T2T: concrete pylons drilled into the ground close together, gap closed by shotcrete. Much more secure than Darlington's sloped walls (and maybe why we got slanted walls, they're probably cheaper too).

But I can easily see the current government wander around and doing zip about finishing the corridor. We're coming up to 2 years post-election, the Northern Connector and Darlington are nearing completion and the R2P currently under construction was designed and set in motion before the 2018 election; the current government is riding the coat tails of the previous government on quite a few infrastructure projects. Off the top of my head, the only projects I can think of that they've planned and set in motion themselves is the Ovingham and Hove Level Crossing Removals and the Paradise Park'n'Ride.

Spotto wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:13 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:34 pm

The wall collapse during construction near Darlington would give rise to concerns about stability of tunnels, but might be just as bad in other ways for stability of towers carrying an elevated road.

The difference that they would need to advertise to people is that the Darlington walls were slanted dirt held back by shotcrete until the main panels were installed. Cut-and-cover tunnels would be similar to the sections beneath the road bridges or the entire length of T2T: concrete pylons drilled into the ground close together, gap closed by shotcrete. Much more secure than Darlington's sloped walls (and maybe why we got slanted walls, they're probably cheaper too).

But I can easily see the current government wander around and doing zip about finishing the corridor. We're coming up to 2 years post-election, the Northern Connector and Darlington are nearing completion and the R2P currently under construction was designed and set in motion before the 2018 election; the current government is riding the coat tails of the previous government on quite a few infrastructure projects. Off the top of my head, the only projects I can think of that they've planned and set in motion themselves is the Ovingham and Hove Level Crossing Removals and the Paradise Park'n'Ride.

Did state Labor have anything to do with the Port Wakefield overpass or Port Augusta bridge? Both have tenders invited from shortlisted consortia, and expect construction to commence later this year according to DPTI pages. Port Augusta seems to have been initiated by the Federal government, after Port Augusta Council banned cyclists and pedestrians form the old bridge.

Spotto wrote:

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:34 pm

The wall collapse during construction near Darlington would give rise to concerns about stability of tunnels, but might be just as bad in other ways for stability of towers carrying an elevated road.

The difference that they would need to advertise to people is that the Darlington walls were slanted dirt held back by shotcrete until the main panels were installed. Cut-and-cover tunnels would be similar to the sections beneath the road bridges or the entire length of T2T: concrete pylons drilled into the ground close together, gap closed by shotcrete. Much more secure than Darlington's sloped walls (and maybe why we got slanted walls, they're probably cheaper too).

But I can easily see the current government wander around and doing zip about finishing the corridor. We're coming up to 2 years post-election, the Northern Connector and Darlington are nearing completion and the R2P currently under construction was designed and set in motion before the 2018 election; the current government is riding the coat tails of the previous government on quite a few infrastructure projects. Off the top of my head, the only projects I can think of that they've planned and set in motion themselves is the Ovingham and Hove Level Crossing Removals and the Paradise Park'n'Ride.

Metro-wise they have also planned 6 intersection upgrades.

- Daws/Goodwood/Springbank
- Magill/Portrush
- Cross/Fullarton
- Glen Osmond/Fullarton
- Main North/Nottage
- Hampstead/Grand Junction?


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SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:34 pm

The former Labor government appeared to favour short tunnels, then an elevated (a la Superway) section between Anzac Highway and Tonsley. I'm not sure if that requires a different amount of land or air rights acquisition. I don't think any version has been designed to the level of doing accurate costings yet.

While a completed raised road would work well in that area, I find it hard to imagine it actually being constructed.
Any construction in that section that doesn't involve lots of land acquisition is going to have this same problem, but you either need corridors to the side for traffic to pass alongside during construction, or put massive disruptive detours in place for years.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:40 pm

The big plot twist is the Telstra substation near Cross Road. That'll be a fair spanner in the works of options for the area.

You mean exchange? There nearest Telstra substation is on Daws road, and the nearest electricity substation is on the corner of Daws & South roads, just down from the Telstra exchange.

rev wrote: nearest Telstra substation is on Daws road

Nearest Telstra exchange is Edwardstown at 688 south Rd, pretty close to cross rd/south Rd intersection.

I did mean exchange, the word slipped my mind.

bits wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:17 pm

rev wrote: nearest Telstra substation is on Daws road

Nearest Telstra exchange is Edwardstown at 688 south Rd, pretty close to cross rd/south Rd intersection.

Oh yeh, didn't come up on Google Maps.

Spotto wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:11 pm

Emerson Crossing to Darlington (approx 4.3km) will likely be the most tricky part. Like Don Bradman to Richmond Road, it's lined with businesses and industry with more behind those with road frontage but it's a much longer stretch of road in addition to business further back from the road. Plus there's a whole shopping centre and a few clusters of big box stores which would be next to impossible to even bother acquiring.

Emerson to Darlington would probably only be solved with a deep-bored tunnel(s).

The fact that this section is mostly industry and big box stores should actually make the Emerson-Darlington section simpler than others. Unlike in residential areas where structures like the Superway would provoke a community uproar, most people would be happy with any upgrade to what is currently a very unattractive stretch of road. Land acquisition is likely to be simpler here too, as the allotments are fewer and larger, and businesses tend to have less emotional attachment to their particular site compared to home owners.

Before the Marshall Government came up with its thought bubble about tunnels, there were already plans to deal with Emerson-Edwardstown with a combination of trench and elevated road.

I would think there is no planning on south road in the past 10 years Mazda dealership being built on the western side brand new service station 30 meters opposite Caltex on a site that was derelict for 20 years.a child care centre renovated on the corner of everard ave and south road, no thought of how Bunnings will impact the north south Motorway with right turns both on and off south road . Let’s hope there is a connection in the final plan when it’s released for east/west interchange either at cross road or St Marys or along the corridor somewhere.
There has to be a simple way to limit right hand turns and make the traffic move smoother a bit like they are doing at Pym st to regency road . Maybe put in uturn at major intersections and make 3 lanes in morning/ afternoon peak . just a thought I had sitting on top of the Emerson bridge with little traffic coming the other way just until works get underway for the final piece of north south Motorway
Rant over cheers