Sensational-Adelaide.com

Continuing an off subject discussion!

Please take it to The Pub!

Brucetiki wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 5:43 pm

Waewick wrote: ↑

Fri May 15, 2020 9:20 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Such as refusing to offer any assistance to government enterprise workers out of work due to COVID 19 but ineligible for JobKeeper.

Yep, I'm sure people will remember things like this.

Why do you think they are they better than everyone else who had to line up at centrelink.

People in exactly the same role with private companies qualified - for example Adelaide Oval staff qualified, Entertainment Centre staff did not.

So I ask you, what makes Adelaide Oval staff any better than Entertainment Centre staff?

Mods, happy for this to be shifted elsewhere.

I think it’s down to how the venues are run. The Oval, Entertainment Centre and also the Festival Centre are all owned by the government but the Oval is managed/operated by the SMA which is a private company; Ent Centre and Festival Centre are run directly under government departments which makes their employees government staff.

It’s not about being better than anyone else, they’re people just like the rest of us in normal jobs who have bills to pay and families to support. I have friends who work at both venues as ushers and event staff and they’re in that boat.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I am one of those people who favour closing stations, here is my list :

Gawler Line

Close North Adelaide as a train station (but keep and protect the heritage building)
Remove : Greenfields, Nurlutta, Womma, Kudla, Tamblin, and Gawler Oval.
A new station can be built between Muno Parra and Gawler if the land is developed in the future.

Outer Harbor

Remove : Woodville Park, Ethelton, Peterhead, Largs North, Midlunga.
Rebuild a new Glanville station just south of the current site.

Belair Line

Remove : Mile End, Torrens Park, Lynton, Coromandel.
Build new station near Springbank Road replacing Torrens Park and Lynton

Seaford Line

Remove : Emerson, Hove, Warradale (with a new station in between) and Marino Rocks.

Some of Adelaide stations are truly embarrassing...why does anyone think that a station like Torrens Park attracts people to public transport?
People want safety and basic comfort as they wait for the train. Sadly few Adelaide train stations qualify...

If you've ever been at Tambelin Station between 8-9 and 3-4 you wouldn't have it on the list, it's very heavily used by students around those times. I would be curious if there are other stations on your list that have similar uses.

edit: Removing Tambelin and Kudla would give a roughly 9 km stretch there without a single train station. This is a suburban line, not an interstate service.

Nort wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 10:27 am

PeFe wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I am one of those people who favour closing stations, here is my list :

Gawler Line

Close North Adelaide as a train station (but keep and protect the heritage building)
Remove : Greenfields, Nurlutta, Womma, Kudla, Tamblin, and Gawler Oval.
A new station can be built between Muno Parra and Gawler if the land is developed in the future.

Outer Harbor

Remove : Woodville Park, Ethelton, Peterhead, Largs North, Midlunga.
Rebuild a new Glanville station just south of the current site.

Belair Line

Remove : Mile End, Torrens Park, Lynton, Coromandel.
Build new station near Springbank Road replacing Torrens Park and Lynton

Seaford Line

Remove : Emerson, Hove, Warradale (with a new station in between) and Marino Rocks.

Some of Adelaide stations are truly embarrassing...why does anyone think that a station like Torrens Park attracts people to public transport?
People want safety and basic comfort as they wait for the train. Sadly few Adelaide train stations qualify...

If you've ever been at Tambelin Station between 8-9 and 3-4 you wouldn't have it on the list, it's very heavily used by students around those times. I would be curious if there are other stations on your list that have similar uses.

edit: Removing Tambelin and Kudla would give a roughly 9 km stretch there without a single train station. This is a suburban line, not an interstate service.

I'm intrigued that you would remove Womma (next to a main road with a passing bus route) but not Broadmeadows (buried in a side street off of a back street). I assume the logic is that there is more (mostly run-down, but tagged for eventual redevelopment) public housing around Broadmeadows.

Nort wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 10:27 am

PeFe wrote: ↑

Sat May 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I am one of those people who favour closing stations, here is my list :

Gawler Line

Close North Adelaide as a train station (but keep and protect the heritage building)
Remove : Greenfields, Nurlutta, Womma, Kudla, Tamblin, and Gawler Oval.
A new station can be built between Muno Parra and Gawler if the land is developed in the future.

Outer Harbor

Remove : Woodville Park, Ethelton, Peterhead, Largs North, Midlunga.
Rebuild a new Glanville station just south of the current site.

Belair Line

Remove : Mile End, Torrens Park, Lynton, Coromandel.
Build new station near Springbank Road replacing Torrens Park and Lynton

Seaford Line

Remove : Emerson, Hove, Warradale (with a new station in between) and Marino Rocks.

Some of Adelaide stations are truly embarrassing...why does anyone think that a station like Torrens Park attracts people to public transport?
People want safety and basic comfort as they wait for the train. Sadly few Adelaide train stations qualify...

If you've ever been at Tambelin Station between 8-9 and 3-4 you wouldn't have it on the list, it's very heavily used by students around those times. I would be curious if there are other stations on your list that have similar uses.

edit: Removing Tambelin and Kudla would give a roughly 9 km stretch there without a single train station. This is a suburban line, not an interstate service.

In my mind Tambelin is too close to Evanston (which is in the middle of the suburb)

And having some students use a railway station twice a day.....is that enough to justify its existence?

How many people use it after 7pm?

Like a record that won't stop repeating... 'If only we could the actual passenger numbers across a weekday for each individual station, then I could make more informed decisions from my armchair"

I'd like to see North Adelaide actually used, as opposed to closed outright. I'd personally use it if the trains weren't so infrequent, and it would serve residential development that will grow east and north-east of the Bowden development (all the large industry sites that are looking at selling up, like Detmold). Might also have relevance depending on what happens with the northern most section of the golf course.

Nathan do you really think North Adelaide is viable as a train station? Given its location and lack of catchment..it really is in the middle of nowhere, I would think access is a huge issue.

You have to get across the parklands and Park Terrace to get to Bowden....quite a feat and not a particularly safe route at night. I see no women ever using it that way. Yes NA is a little closer to Bowden/Brompton than the Bowden train station but the access routes in Bowden are now being built on with new streets and lighting and more importantly.....people. You can walk home from Bowden and there will be people around.

Nort wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 10:27 am

edit: Removing Tambelin and Kudla would give a roughly 9 km stretch there without a single train station. This is a suburban line, not an interstate service.

Removing Tambelin and Kudla while building a new station at Gordon/Tiver Road and replacing Evanston with a station at the A20 overpass would be



Munno Para --3.8km--> Gordon/Tiver Road --1.7km--> A20

You could just about keep Kudla and put a crossing loop there

PeFe wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 11:25 am

In my mind Tambelin is too close to Evanston (which is in the middle of the suburb)

And having some students use a railway station twice a day.....is that enough to justify its existence?

High peak hour usage is a good reason to keep transport infrastructure, yes.

North Adelaide station is close to Bowden, Brompton, the Parklands, The Gov, the Entertainment Centre, golf courses, Hindmarsh Stadium and more. It just needs a 21st-century upgrade, along with removal/relocation of the ARTC line, which is a huge barrier to station use and access.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 12:48 pm

Nathan do you really think North Adelaide is viable as a train station? Given its location and lack of catchment..it really is in the middle of nowhere, I would think access is a huge issue.

You have to get across the parklands and Park Terrace to get to Bowden....quite a feat and not a particularly safe route at night. I see no women ever using it that way. Yes NA is a little closer to Bowden/Brompton than the Bowden train station but the access routes in Bowden are now being built on with new streets and lighting and more importantly.....people. You can walk home from Bowden and there will be people around.

There's well lit paths on both sides of the tracks under the David Fitzsimmons Bridge into Bowden and Ovingham, so crossing Park Tce isn't an issue. Mary Lee Park adjacent to the station is pretty well patronised now (the basketball and tennis courts are often busy well into the evening, particularly with students coming from the city).

As Bowden develops beyond being just residential (I wish they would hurry the fuck up with the retail/hospitality/commercial parts) then I can see it potentially serving people coming from north to the area (as opposed to just between NA and ARS), and there's potential to strengthen the link through to North Adelaide proper once the golf course is shrunk.

This all gets back to the point that if we want lots of stops for small numbers of people each stop, then trams are the best type of vehicle.

If, on the other hand, we want a fast service to the city, it's got to be heavy rail, preferably electrified with very few stops and large stations with lots of people fed mostly by feeder buses.

I know of no way that trying to make heavy rail act as if it were a tram (ie short station distances between stops) can ever be either economic, or entice drivers from cars.

If we cannot rationalise station numbers...not just one or two, then there's no point whatever in heavy rail. And sooner or later, a government will work that out, and heavy rail will be finished. The only reason it's survived so far is because of the rail unions (under Labor), and no major expenditure need (eg new railcars, during Liberal governments). However, the minute new railcars are needed for the Outer Harbor and Belair lines are needed, my prediction is that all bets are off. Light rail is so much cheaper for those lines.

Does Bowden deserve 2 railway stations serving the area? You already have one heavy rail line, one tram line and buses......How much public transport do you want for such a small area? The Gawler railway line is better utilised as some sort of express line that serves the outer northern suburbs, meaning less stops in the inner city.

Would I change my mind if the Gawler was split into 2 separate lines, one all stops into the city from Virginia/Salisbury North and the other a City-Salisbury express then all stops to Gawler. Yes.

Nort wrote

High peak hour usage is a good reason to keep transport infrastructure, yes.

I will repeat myself again...what are the actual numbers????? 9 students using the station in peak hours does not constitute "high peak usage"

Does anyone actually use Kudla

rubberman wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 4:25 pm

This all gets back to the point that if we want lots of stops for small numbers of people each stop, then trams are the best type of vehicle.

If, on the other hand, we want a fast service to the city, it's got to be heavy rail, preferably electrified with very few stops and large stations with lots of people fed mostly by feeder buses.

I know of no way that trying to make heavy rail act as if it were a tram (ie short station distances between stops) can ever be either economic, or entice drivers from cars.

If we cannot rationalise station numbers...not just one or two, then there's no point whatever in heavy rail. And sooner or later, a government will work that out, and heavy rail will be finished. The only reason it's survived so far is because of the rail unions (under Labor), and no major expenditure need (eg new railcars, during Liberal governments). However, the minute new railcars are needed for the Outer Harbor and Belair lines are needed, my prediction is that all bets are off. Light rail is so much cheaper for those lines.

The average space between stations in the inner suburbs:
Gawler Line: 1.3km
Seaford Line: 1km
Outer Harbor: 1km
Belair Line: 1.1km
Glenelg Line: 500m

In Melbourne:
Dandenong Line: 1.1km
Sandringham Line: 1.1km
Clifton Hill Line: 700m
Craigieburn Line: 1.1km

In Sydney:
Strathfield Line: 1km
Bankstown Line (soon to be converted into a Metro): 1.3km
Hornsby Line: 1.1km

In Brisbane:
Caboolture Line: 1.2km
Ipswich Line: 1.3km
Cleveland Line: 1.3km

InPerth:
Armadale Line: 1.2km
Fremantle Line: 1.1km
Butler Line: 5km
Mandurah Line: 4km
Midlands Line: 1km

I'm not sure if you were proposing making the Gawler Line a light railway line. But if you were, why are all the other lines interstate still heavy rail?

Heavy rail works differently in the Australian context compared to overseas.

In places like Germany, stations are in the centre of regional towns that have often pre-dated the railways themselves.

In Australia the stations in Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth have serve the low density suburbs that have been built along the railways lines. In Sydney they have created local regional centres around their train stations.

I still believe that heavy rail is the best option at the moment for the Gawler and Outer Harbor lines, especially as we are increasing the density around existing stations such as Islington, Mawson Lakes, Elizabeth, Bowden, Kilkenny, Woodville, St Clair, Port Adelaide and Glanville.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 5:18 pm

Does Bowden deserve 2 railway stations serving the area? You already have one heavy rail line, one tram line and buses

If it does eventually become a retail, office and hospitality hub, it deserves both stations. It would allow employees coming from stations along the Gawler Line to access the Bowden area without having to change at Adelaide, and vice versa.

You could have a student living in Bowden for example, where he would only need to catch one train to the Mawson Lakes campus of UniSA.