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I've just had a brainwave, why not use the old RAH site for a new stadium? It would fit, and only marginally affect the Botanic Gardens. Thoughts?

i thought the casino had first dibs on that site.

Tyler_Durden wrote:quote:Benski81
With all due respect I don't agree. You're quoting figures from 2004 and it's easy to pick statistics that distort things to justify what you're saying.

Rubbish. I haven't distorted anything. That was the last time the Socceroos played in Adelaide which is exactly what Adam asked. Five years ago isn't that long ago. It is certainly very clear in the memories of FFA officials. Feel free to quote some more appropriate figures if you wish.

That was over 5 years ago and a lot has changed since.

Has it? I've been a member of Adelaide United since the A-League started in 2005 and nothing has changed at all from where I sit. A-League crowds still average around 12,000 per game, which is fine from my perspective, but let's not pretend.

I've been to Adelaide united games where there has been over 16,000 people, on more than one occasion,

So have I, on the only three occasions that Adelaide United have ever had more than 16,000 to a home game. And two of those were the biggest two rounds of the Asian Champions League, and best case scenario is we'll get those games once every ten years, and that's being optimistic. I have also been to Hindmarsh on many occasions where the attendance has been less than 10,000, including the most recent match played there, the Preliminary Final against Queensland which drew only 8,000 people to the second biggest game of the A-League season.

The change in 5 years renders those figures largely redundant

Based on what? As all the key performance indicators published by the FFA point out, the A-League has remained fairly stangant over five years, with a drop in interest last season.

What do you base your assertion on? Other than wishful thinking, that is.

I don't believe it's an interest issue now and IMO I think we could support a venue of 20K plus here in Adelaide no problems at all.

If a new soccer stadium was financially viable then the private sector would jump at the chance to pay for it. Likewise, AUFC would have buyers lining up. Unfortunately AUFC is purely a very expensive hobby for someone who can afford to lose a lot of money. It's easy for you to talk the talk on an internet forum when you don't have anything invested in it, but those that do have the money won't go near such a stadium. It's obvious why.

Well there was this one event called the World Cup in Germany in 2006 and it completely changed the way most people see the sport. People of Australia realised that we can make it the big stage and that was just with qualifying. That gave berth to the A-league and the fanfare we all see today.

Doesn’t the fact that the Socceroos haven’t played here in over 5 years show you that were need to accommodate them? They are getting 50,000 - 70,000 PER GAME in Melbourne and Sydney and if AAMI stadium was up to standard they would fill that too, hell I’d go even if it wasn’t up to standard!

Obviously we're not going to get more than 16,000 to more games if we can't fit them in we all should be asking both Port Power and the Adelaide Crows the same question how many games have they reached capacity in the last five years? Zero

The reason no one is going near paying for a stadium is because no one can afford to do it (privately) there are countless things in Adelaide that should be built. But if no will do it privately the Government needs to step in as long as there’s state support which there is for this.

I really think that if Adelaide is to be taken seriously in Asia (in a general sense) Football is a clear area we can expand on. I can guarantee that almost all of the people of Adelaide would never have heard of any of the cities where Adelaide United played during it last two ACL campaigns. Now that there is a raised awareness of those cities they seem less alien to everyone and more approachable and accessible. With a larger stadium and inturn larger supporter base Adelaide United will become a successful club in Asia and be a great ambassador for not only Adelaide but the rest of Australia too.

So you're saying that people in Adelaide aren't going to watch the soccer to the point where the stadium is full because the stadium is too small, so we should build a bigger stadium, and then more people will go? Somebody give this man the chequebook!

Tyler_Durden wrote:quote:Benski81
With all due respect I don't agree. You're quoting figures from 2004 and it's easy to pick statistics that distort things to justify what you're saying.

Rubbish. I haven't distorted anything. That was the last time the Socceroos played in Adelaide which is exactly what Adam asked. Five years ago isn't that long ago. It is certainly very clear in the memories of FFA officials. Feel free to quote some more appropriate figures if you wish.

That was over 5 years ago and a lot has changed since.

Has it? I've been a member of Adelaide United since the A-League started in 2005 and nothing has changed at all from where I sit. A-League crowds still average around 12,000 per game, which is fine from my perspective, but let's not pretend.

I've been to Adelaide united games where there has been over 16,000 people, on more than one occasion,

So have I, on the only three occasions that Adelaide United have ever had more than 16,000 to a home game. And two of those were the biggest two rounds of the Asian Champions League, and best case scenario is we'll get those games once every ten years, and that's being optimistic. I have also been to Hindmarsh on many occasions where the attendance has been less than 10,000, including the most recent match played there, the Preliminary Final against Queensland which drew only 8,000 people to the second biggest game of the A-League season.

The change in 5 years renders those figures largely redundant

Based on what? As all the key performance indicators published by the FFA point out, the A-League has remained fairly stangant over five years, with a drop in interest last season.

What do you base your assertion on? Other than wishful thinking, that is.

I don't believe it's an interest issue now and IMO I think we could support a venue of 20K plus here in Adelaide no problems at all.

If a new soccer stadium was financially viable then the private sector would jump at the chance to pay for it. Likewise, AUFC would have buyers lining up. Unfortunately AUFC is purely a very expensive hobby for someone who can afford to lose a lot of money. It's easy for you to talk the talk on an internet forum when you don't have anything invested in it, but those that do have the money won't go near such a stadium. It's obvious why.

Who says I don't have money invested in it?

Build it and they will come!!111!11

quote:adam_stuckey
Well there was this one event called the World Cup in Germany in 2006 and it completely changed the way most people see the sport. People of Australia realised that we can make it the big stage and that was just with qualifying. That gave berth to the A-league and the fanfare we all see today.

No, it didn't give birth to the A-League. The A-League already existed. And if that event called the World Cup made such a difference it unfortunately hasn't translated to the A-League.

Doesn’t the fact that the Socceroos haven’t played here in over 5 years show you that were need to accommodate them? They are getting 50,000 - 70,000 PER GAME in Melbourne and Sydney and if AAMI stadium was up to standard they would fill that too, hell I’d go even if it wasn’t up to standard!

I have no doubt that if a high profile international team were to play the Socceroos in Adelaide it would draw a very large crowd. But there are only a limited number of those games available to us. And they need to be shared around Australia. Which means Adelaide could only hope for that type of game once every couple of years at best.

Clearly, that isn't often enough to make a new stadium viable. Therefore, the viability of a stadium would have to come from the A-League, and that's where the major problem lies. The A-League doesn't draw well enough here to make a bigger stadium viable.

Obviously we're not going to get more than 16,000 to more games if we can't fit them in we all should be asking both Port Power and the Adelaide Crows the same question how many games have they reached capacity in the last five years? Zero

This is irrelevant in so many ways I don't know where to begin. For starters, the Government didn't build Football Park, the SANFL did. If soccer want to build their own stadium they can. Secondly, the Government aren't building a new stadium for the Crows and Port Adelaide and nor should they. So, what's your point?

The reason no one is going near paying for a stadium is because no one can afford to do it (privately) there are countless things in Adelaide that should be built.

Rubbish. There are plenty of companies that have the ability to invest in a stadium. The reason they don't is because their aim is to get a return on their investment and such a stadium won't provide that. The Government's priorities are with non-profit services.

But if no will do it privately the Government needs to step in as long as there’s state support which there is for this.

No, there isn't. Current crowd figures show support, or lack of it. And market forces dictate investment. I don't expect them to get more than 16,000 at Hindmarsh. But there is no reason they can't get close to it every single game. Do that and investors might show interest.

The bottom line is it is up to us fans to get out there and support the game. If we do that in big enough numbers then everything else will fall into place. Supply and demand. Market forces. Simple economics.

I do agree that at current crowd sizes there isn't a need for a new stadium IF we're just talking about just Adelaide United and not a World Cup bid or Socceroo games.
But I believe that there will be growth and Hindmarsh stadium will eventually hold us back. What I'm talking about is over a 10 year period and this is what the plan for the stadium is (2018/2022).

I think we should judge what decision we make as a state based on growth of football in the next 5 years if crowds are still around 12,000 or less then we aren't interested enough for a stadium and a World Cup bid!

So i'm putting my money where my mouth is and purchasing a membership for Adelaide United this season

Soccer seems to have the same momentum as basketball did 20 years ago, We all know how that ended up.

But please for the good of sport in Australia, prove me wrong

Tyler_Durden wrote:quote:Benski81
With all due respect I don't agree. You're quoting figures from 2004 and it's easy to pick statistics that distort things to justify what you're saying.

Rubbish. I haven't distorted anything. That was the last time the Socceroos played in Adelaide which is exactly what Adam asked. Five years ago isn't that long ago. It is certainly very clear in the memories of FFA officials. Feel free to quote some more appropriate figures if you wish.

Sorry but you have been extremely frugal with the truth here mate. 2004 Adelaide saw us host the OFC Nations Cup against the HEAVY hitting football nations of Tahiti, Vanuatu, Fiji and Solomon Islands. It is to be expected when the match is essentially a dead rubber that it will hardly be a draw card - thus the couple of thousand turning up. However when we faced some (remotely) half way decent competition like New Zealand, 12,000 people turn out! Oh and this also predates the start of the A-League as well and 2006 World Cup, but hey let's just look to these figures as reflective of how things stand at present like you wish.

Tyler_Durden wrote:That was over 5 years ago and a lot has changed since.

Has it? I've been a member of Adelaide United since the A-League started in 2005 and nothing has changed at all from where I sit. A-League crowds still average around 12,000 per game, which is fine from my perspective, but let's not pretend.

This season actually averaged 13,000 mate, sorry. Bloody good showing considering there are only 15,500 seats! Furthermore you ignore that when the games are moved to a central location with greater capacity (ie Adelaide Oval) that figure spikes to 23,000+?

Where is the additional capacity for your more important games? The current venue's capacity is pushed as it stands, what happens towards the end of a successful season? What happens in finals? What happens when Adelaide gets one of the two positions in the Asian Champions League for Aussie clubs? What happens for a Socceroos game be it friendly, ASEAN Football Championship, Asian Cup, World Cup qualification (and in light of the upsurge in popularity following the A-League and 2006 World Cup this time thanks)?

Tyler_Durden wrote:I've been to Adelaide united games where there has been over 16,000 people, on more than one occasion,

So have I, on the only three occasions that Adelaide United have ever had more than 16,000 to a home game. And two of those were the biggest two rounds of the Asian Champions League, and best case scenario is we'll get those games once every ten years, and that's being optimistic.

1) Any 15,500+ figure is fantastic mate, not a single seat left in the venue.

2) Wrong. You have ignored home matches when held at larger premises. Of course you would never let the truth get in the way of a good story aye mate? While 25,000 (07-08) and 23,000 (08-09) may be artificially inflated by the novelty factor of an Adelaide Oval game, other factors such as inappropriate viewing angles may have held such a figure back too.

3) Wrong again! (Notice a trend?) Chances are that we will qualify for the Asian Champions League once every 5 years - there are two places offered to the 10 Australian clubs. Ten divided by two = five.

Tyler_Durden wrote:I have also been to Hindmarsh on many occasions where the attendance has been less than 10,000, including the most recent match played there, the Preliminary Final against Queensland which drew only 8,000 people to the second biggest game of the A-League season.

Does it escape your memory that Adelaide had just been THRASHED 0-4 the week before and we were widely thought to lose? Of course you casually ignore this - another lie by omission.

Tyler_Durden wrote:The change in 5 years renders those figures largely redundant

Based on what? As all the key performance indicators published by the FFA point out, the A-League has remained fairly stangant (sic) over five years, with a drop in interest last season.

What do you base your assertion on? Other than wishful thinking, that is.

Of course you don't actually factor in the hike in popularity attributed to the A-League itself cloud your rant. Furthermore we are not looking at the whole A-League - looking at Adelaide United is more appropriate.

Tyler_Durden wrote:I don't believe it's an interest issue now and IMO I think we could support a venue of 20K plus here in Adelaide no problems at all.

If a new soccer stadium was financially viable then the private sector would jump at the chance to pay for it. Likewise, AUFC would have buyers lining up. Unfortunately AUFC is purely a very expensive hobby for someone who can afford to lose a lot of money. It's easy for you to talk the talk on an internet forum when you don't have anything invested in it, but those that do have the money won't go near such a stadium. It's obvious why.

Tyler_Durden wrote:And market forces dictate investment... Supply and demand. Market forces. Simple economics.

Very simple economics indeed! ECON 101, first lecture. Now to progress to some subsequent lectures. Put in the most simple forms for your benefit, markets while efficient may not end up with the optimal efficient outcome. *HORROR!* Private firms owning a stadium don't give a damn about the additional benefits to other entities, the positive externalities, arising from that stadium, i.e. the increased economic activity related to being able to attract more people to the game. Enter government through intervention in order to ensure an efficient outcome is reached. Government cannot and should not shoulder all the costs, however nor can we expect the private sector to go it alone, as they will only chip is as much as they get out of it, with no regards to external benefits.

Tyler_Durden wrote:Rubbish. I haven't distorted anything.

:wank:

Cruise wrote:Soccer seems to have the same momentum as basketball did 20 years ago, We all know how that ended up.
But please for the good of sport in Australia, prove me wrong

I dont thinks soccer is ever going to end up like basketball... As our presence in the Asian Confederation grow,
and we qualify for more World Cups. The popularity of Soccer will grow. We are getting to see many more qualifying games,
world cup games, asian champions league games and so on. If we had a decent stadium the FFA wouldnt be snubbing us
for world cup qualifying games.

Adelaides fundamental problem not just with Soccer but with AFL football and other sports are that we have a multitude
of shit quality stadiums interspersed around the suburbs with poor quality transport options. Imagine once the rail
network is upgraded and electrified and the scheduling is increased as planned and a Multipurpose Stadium was in the
city. People would be able to get to the ground from everywhere quite efficiently and be able to spend time before and
after the game at shops, restaraunts and the like. Every sport AFL, Soccer, Cricket and Athletics which could be hosted
at such a ground would surely have increased attendences.

ozisnowman wrote:Adelaides fundamental problem not just with Soccer but with AFL football and other sports are that we have a multitude
of shit quality stadiums interspersed around the suburbs with poor quality transport options. Imagine once the rail
network is upgraded and electrified and the scheduling is increased as planned and a Multipurpose Stadium was in the
city. People would be able to get to the ground from everywhere quite efficiently and be able to spend time before and
after the game at shops, restaraunts and the like. Every sport AFL, Soccer, Cricket and Athletics which could be hosted
at such a ground would surely have increased attendences.

I really couldn't have said it better myself! Location, Location, Location..

Ditto, well done ozisnowman, you hit the nail right on the head, so did you dj_fishy.

Cruise, cut the crap with the smart-alec build it and they will come remarks. It was funny the first few times, but it's just annoying now - an ironic reference to the AAMI Stadium Upgrade thread intended; I hope no offence is taken Cruise.
But still, build it and they will come is true. Do you think Mt Barker would have taken off if the freeway wasn't built in the 60s? Do you think Gawler wouldn't have been as large had the train line, etc. been built there? Do you think West Lakes (a nice suburb though, except for that thing) would have been as successful were it not for... you-know-what ? And that was just AAMI Stadium in the suburbs. Imagine a venue of such capacity, yet even higher standard in the CBD. Build it and they will come, indeed.

This is a post that was in relation to something that someone said about some other issue that is now long gone.

Well this seems to have taken a positive swing!

I think that everyone who does want Australia and in turn Adelaide to get the world cup NOW IS THE TIME start going to as many Adelaide United games as possible this season vote with your feet and make this happen. Everyone who in 2018/2022 watches some other country get it and says to themselves "that could have been us" and didn't bother to put themselves foreward and go to games is I don't want to say responsible but yeah responsible. Its all our responsibility that we win the right to host the World Cup