Sensational-Adelaide.com

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:15 pm

Albanese, if elected, has guaranteed a coordination of state/commonwealth affairs when it comes to rail manufacturing. Reading between the lines, I interpret this as using Bombardier (Melbourne) as the manufacturing centre for trams for the whole of Australia. The Flexitys are made by Bombardier so would suspect if we expanded our network, expect to see new generation Flexities to support the system.

Jaymz wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:49 pm

I posted a tongue in cheek post in another thread about Adelaide's tram system being ripped up decades ago, knowing I was partially correct. I did a bit of actual research and was absolutely gobsmacked about how extensive our tram system was up until the 1950's. What a big shame on our fair city. Who okay'd this?

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:20 pm

Jaymz wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:49 pm

I posted a tongue in cheek post in another thread about Adelaide's tram system being ripped up decades ago, knowing I was partially correct. I did a bit of actual research and was absolutely gobsmacked about how extensive our tram system was up until the 1950's. What a big shame on our fair city. Who okay'd this?

If you haven't come across it already, this interactive map shows the extent of the system and you can see old photos of it by clicking on the tram icons: https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/interactive-map

The problem with trams is that it's expensive to maintain dedicated infrastructure, whereas buses use the roads. They're also incapable of driving around obstructions.

Ben wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:40 pm

ACC are going to lobby the State government to extand the tram line to O'Connell street at tonights meeting.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:14 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:20 pm

Jaymz wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:49 pm

I posted a tongue in cheek post in another thread about Adelaide's tram system being ripped up decades ago, knowing I was partially correct. I did a bit of actual research and was absolutely gobsmacked about how extensive our tram system was up until the 1950's. What a big shame on our fair city. Who okay'd this?

If you haven't come across it already, this interactive map shows the extent of the system and you can see old photos of it by clicking on the tram icons: https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/interactive-map

The problem with trams is that it's expensive to maintain dedicated infrastructure, whereas buses use the roads. They're also incapable of driving around obstructions.

I'd add to that the opposition in Adelaide to transfers. In other cities, such as Prague, you'd have trams and metro as a backbone, and buses feeding trams and metro stations. Heavy rail serves the outer suburbs mostly. (Think Two Wells, Gawler, Seaford, Mt Barker. High speed and very limited inner suburban coverage). If any party in Adelaide tried that, they'd be crucified. That means buses bound for lots of destinations, and trams, metro and heavy rail uneconomic because they aren't fed enough passengers.

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:54 pm

rubberman wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:14 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:20 pm

If you haven't come across it already, this interactive map shows the extent of the system and you can see old photos of it by clicking on the tram icons: https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/interactive-map

The problem with trams is that it's expensive to maintain dedicated infrastructure, whereas buses use the roads. They're also incapable of driving around obstructions.

I'd add to that the opposition in Adelaide to transfers. In other cities, such as Prague, you'd have trams and metro as a backbone, and buses feeding trams and metro stations. Heavy rail serves the outer suburbs mostly. (Think Two Wells, Gawler, Seaford, Mt Barker. High speed and very limited inner suburban coverage). If any party in Adelaide tried that, they'd be crucified. That means buses bound for lots of destinations, and trams, metro and heavy rail uneconomic because they aren't fed enough passengers.

We need to understand and address why there is an Adelaide opposition to transfers. Vehicle journeys with a loose association with their timetable, infrequent services and tight scheduled connections mean there is (or has historically been) a high chance that a person trying to travel across town using several vehicles is going to end up significantly later than the timetable said they would. Once trust is lost (or never held), it will take a long time to build it up. Why would I decide to rely on multi-modal journeys when I've seen buses leaving the interchange as the train pulls in to the station, or had a 29 minute wait for a "connecting" train with 30-minute frequency because the bus missed the connection this morning. Increasing frequency to 15 minutes (and even better 5 minutes) will help, but it takes money to offer that service and time to make people trust it.

Some years ago, I had a work trip to a foreign city. My wife was able to come with me. We were staying in a suburban hotel a short walk from the business I was visiting. My wife enquired about the train timetable from a nearby station to the city centre. Initially she received a look of confusion, then a laugh, as the trains ran often enough that it would take longer to look up the time than to wait for the next train!

• integrate into the existing network seamlessly

• potentially have higher upfront capital costs, but lower operating costs in the long-term

• require less track/road infrastructure maintenance

• result in a simpler, easier to understand PT network

whatstheirnamesmom wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:29 pm

An update on Adelaide City Council voting to advocate for trams to North Adelaide:
– the motion was amended twice, once to include a request for the consideration of trackless trams, and the second time to further stress the importance of an extension to North Adelaide
– the chamber seems to have a strong affinity for trackless tram technology
– Council's current plan to upgrade the bridge would result in an upgrade in 6–7 years time
– the motion passed unanimously

If interested, you can view the discussion (about 10 mins) here

While the motion adds weight to a chorus of voices asking for network expansion to North Adelaide, I can't help but feel like the trackless tram suggestion is a slight goose chase and a shot in their own foot. If anything, consideration of trackless trams will only lead to more expensive and longer consultation, wasted time, and at worse: a further fragmented transport network with higher running costs in the long-term.

Traditional trams would:

• integrate into the existing network seamlessly

• potentially have higher upfront capital costs, but lower operating costs in the long-term

• require less track/road infrastructure maintenance

• result in a simpler, easier to understand PT network

Regardless of technology, I would like to see a dedicated RoW corridor for any expansion to North Adelaide. Which means on-street parking will need to go, or the loss of a car lane in each direction. PT should be so attractive that people want to switch modes. Reliability, punctuality, frequency, speed — all attractive features. Reducing car lanes would help a tram in North Adelaide (and eventually beyond) to be more attractive while discouraging people from driving in peak times.

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:57 pm

"Trackless trams" brings me back to Knoll being Transport Minister. It sounds like something suitably moronic for "Team Adelaide" to advocate for.

whatstheirnamesmom wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:18 pm

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:57 pm

"Trackless trams" brings me back to Knoll being Transport Minister. It sounds like something suitably moronic for "Team Adelaide" to advocate for.

Well his father is on the council, so that might explain it

I just don't see why the ACC would want this... do they want to look like they're taking action while simultaneously ensuring nothing happens? Trackless trams are a fad, no matter which way you skewer it.

whatstheirnamesmom wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:18 pm

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:57 pm

"Trackless trams" brings me back to Knoll being Transport Minister. It sounds like something suitably moronic for "Team Adelaide" to advocate for.

Well his father is on the council, so that might explain it

I just don't see why the ACC would want this... do they want to look like they're taking action while simultaneously ensuring nothing happens? Trackless trams are a fad, no matter which way you skewer it.