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rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:40 am

You can't just expect them to commit to do a tunnel, tunnels, surface motorway, elevated motorway, trench, combination of all of that or whatever, without doing the proper preliminary work.

Why not? That's how the Eastern states get things done! Announce now. Work out the details later.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:12 am

NTRabbit wrote:

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:09 pm

For example, a trench or tunnel around Cross Road was not viable because of groundwater.

Well, something has to go underground at Cross Rd if they're going to grade separate all of the Motorway, South Rd x Cross Rd, and the railway line.

Labor's plan in the Scoping Report was for, basically, a duplication of the existing overpass over Cross Road.

The motorway going over the B roads makes sense, but they still really need to grade separate the rail from the intersection, which means sending that down a trench plus short tunnel with a station replacement like Oaklands.

Westside wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:17 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:40 am

You can't just expect them to commit to do a tunnel, tunnels, surface motorway, elevated motorway, trench, combination of all of that or whatever, without doing the proper preliminary work.

Why not? That's how the Eastern states get things done! Announce now. Work out the details later.

Who wears the financial risk if it turns out the tunnel has to be watertight and heavy enough not to float on the water table? Or if it needs extra strength to cross a fault line in rock? Doing the geotechnical analysis first as a separate contract means there are less unknowns and caveats in later construction contracts.

SBD wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:10 am

Who wears the financial risk if it turns out the tunnel has to be watertight and heavy enough not to float on the water table? Or if it needs extra strength to cross a fault line in rock? Doing the geotechnical analysis first as a separate contract means there are less unknowns and caveats in later construction contracts.

Geotecnical surveys do not guarantee a problem free tunnel. It just alerts the contractor to the potential issues. The Burnley tunnel in Melbourne has had numerous episodes of serious leaks over its lifespan, and the contractor must rectify the issues. Rectification is usually just a workaround of a specific problem, but rarely completely resolves the issue (it just has to be maintained in a useable form). The airport rail tunnel in Perth caused a road collapse in Perths Eastern suburbs, and whole roads were closed until it could be resolved. The contractor had to fix the problem at their expense, but somehow the government blamed the cost over run of the project on this issue, and the fact they were surprised how sandy the Perth soil was ?! So I guess the take out from all of this is it depends on what is in the contracts signed and how extensive the survey was. Another reason why a complete bored tunnel for the remaining 9km section is complete overkill, and a huge risk which will only delay the project, and prevent it being staged in shorter sections like the rest of the corridor.

My two cents:
A tunnel from Hindmarsh to SDBD (about 5km long)
A lowered/widened motorway from SDBD to ANZAC Highway - north side (about 6km long). Mostly houses along the Eastern side, a few businesses like the RAA, Villis as well as the Richmond Primary school.
A continued lowered/widened motorway from ANZAC Highway (south side) to Caulfield Avenue Edwardstown (2.5km). This is the most questionable part, all of homes on the Eastern side of South Road would definitely go, but a lot of businesses here. Thankfully, this section isn't very long.
There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:01 pm

There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

Why would you tunnel 2-3km PAST the start point of the Darlington Upgrade? What would be the point of this?

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:01 pm

My two cents:
A tunnel from Hindmarsh to SDBD (about 5km long)
A lowered/widened motorway from SDBD to ANZAC Highway - north side (about 6km long). Mostly houses along the Eastern side, a few businesses like the RAA, Villis as well as the Richmond Primary school.
A continued lowered/widened motorway from ANZAC Highway (south side) to Caulfield Avenue Edwardstown (2.5km). This is the most questionable part, all of homes on the Eastern side of South Road would definitely go, but a lot of businesses here. Thankfully, this section isn't very long.
There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

It's not even 3km.
5km gets you to the start of the Gallipoli underpass at Anzac Hwy.

SouthAussie94 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:52 pm

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:01 pm

There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

Why would you tunnel 2-3km PAST the start point of the Darlington Upgrade? What would be the point of this?

Remember, this is just me spit-balling.

If you look at the area map, there isn't much open space to build anything as it's already been built. Except where I am suggesting. This same empty space has the Southern Expressway, Marion Road, South & Flagstaff Hill road all within a very close proximity.

A spur road could easily be built from the SE & the NSC straight into a tunnel entrance/exit in this area, without having to knock down a single building.

The South Road after Darlington then becomes a B road servicing its local area.

Further, the KPMG suggested 'Short South' would also be able to feed directly into the tunnel, but at the St Marys End of the existing site.

rev wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:36 pm

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:01 pm

My two cents:
A tunnel from Hindmarsh to SDBD (about 5km long)
A lowered/widened motorway from SDBD to ANZAC Highway - north side (about 6km long). Mostly houses along the Eastern side, a few businesses like the RAA, Villis as well as the Richmond Primary school.
A continued lowered/widened motorway from ANZAC Highway (south side) to Caulfield Avenue Edwardstown (2.5km). This is the most questionable part, all of homes on the Eastern side of South Road would definitely go, but a lot of businesses here. Thankfully, this section isn't very long.
There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

It's not even 3km.
5km gets you to the start of the Gallipoli underpass at Anzac Hwy.

Which part? True, it is 3.4km from Port Road to SDBD, but I did say 'about'. They passed laws to go under private property, they don't have to follow the path of the existing South Road road to get where they want to go.

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:16 pm

SouthAussie94 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:52 pm

croweater888 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:01 pm

There is a very large section of empty land opposite Caulfield Avenue, Edwardstown. From here they would tunnel a further 5-6km and have multiple exits/entry points at a large section of empty land on the corner of Marion road/Flagstaff Road/South Road and Southern Expressway.

Why would you tunnel 2-3km PAST the start point of the Darlington Upgrade? What would be the point of this?

Remember, this is just me spit-balling.

If you look at the area map, there isn't much open space to build anything as it's already been built. Except where I am suggesting. This same empty space has the Southern Expressway, Marion Road, South & Flagstaff Hill road all within a very close proximity.

You're suggesting that the almost complete, brand new $750 million Darlington Upgrade is to be made entirely redundant and we should build a separate piece of infrastructure right next to it that serves exactly the same purpose along a near-identical route? Any form of the NSM south of Anzac Highway will flow seamlessly into the Darlington Upgrade at St Marys. I know you're spit-balling, and a tunnel through Edwardstown had merit, but a suggestion like that is just ludicrous.

I believe some of the land you mention is owned by Castle Plaza for a future expansion.

24/7/2020. A view of the north east corner of Regency Rd/South Rd (on South Rd approaching regency Rd ). (regency Rd is in the background). Please click on pictures for bigger,

Bus route changes have been announced. PDF is on SitePodium and I assume it will be uploaded to the R2P site in due course.

Yes, that's what that part of South Road needs, buses added to the already existing congested mix.

rev wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:56 pm

Yes, that's what that part of South Road needs, buses added to the already existing congested mix.

That's around the time of the first planned traffic switch. Might there be indented bus stop bays at those six stops (three in each direction)?