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rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:53 pm

A-Town wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:17 pm

I think the majority of voters wouldn't be against tram extensions to areas like North Adelaide and the Airport.

Tram extensions proposals weren't the reason why Labor lost the 2018 election.

Agreed. But I think that Koutsantonis's point is that they didn't help win.

The tram extensions are expensive. From a political perspective spending large amounts of money only makes sense if it looks like winning an election.

If it wasn't a winner in 2018, and wasn't even discussed in 2022, is it going to be a winner in 2026?

I don't think it's about it being or not being a winner, it wasn't a major policy because there were other priorities they focused on that did win them the election.
Like, who cares about tram extensions when people are dying in the back of ambulances or waiting for an ambulance, while the Lib gov. wants to build a new stadium?

2022 was ramping/health care taking priority over a new stadium.
2026 I think we will see Labor put more focus on public transport infrastructure. There's an indaily article that specifies the diesel trains end of life is around 2030/32. So with the question of what to do with the Outer Harbour line, I think this question will be answered in the next state election cycle.

Then again the way our state politics runs, it could drag out to the 2030 election and a blame game of who let the diesel trains reach the end of life without a solution.

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rev wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:19 pm

Then again the way our state politics runs, it could drag out to the 2030 election and a blame game of who let the diesel trains reach the end of life without a solution.

Agreed, and then the most likely outcome then will be to just close Grange spur.and Belair..and bung some wires along OH line with no further upgrades to stations et, and throw some more buses at Belair. No proper planning. Get ready for all the trackless bus-tram or in true Adelaide style-Obahn proposals to be dusted off to muddy the waters and make it look like they are doing something.

rev wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:19 pm

rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:53 pm

A-Town wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:17 pm

I think the majority of voters wouldn't be against tram extensions to areas like North Adelaide and the Airport.

Tram extensions proposals weren't the reason why Labor lost the 2018 election.

Agreed. But I think that Koutsantonis's point is that they didn't help win.

The tram extensions are expensive. From a political perspective spending large amounts of money only makes sense if it looks like winning an election.

If it wasn't a winner in 2018, and wasn't even discussed in 2022, is it going to be a winner in 2026?

I don't think it's about it being or not being a winner, it wasn't a major policy because there were other priorities they focused on that did win them the election.
Like, who cares about tram extensions when people are dying in the back of ambulances or waiting for an ambulance, while the Lib gov. wants to build a new stadium?

2022 was ramping/health care taking priority over a new stadium.

Aren't you saying the same thing? Ambulances, and doing something about ramping was the winner. Trams were not. They weren't even mentioned.

Now, personally, I think they could make a difference if the polls are close in 2026. But according to the article, Konstantonis certainly doesn't, and I think he has more say than I. Of course, being a politician, he will backflip if required.

Regardless of where investment in light rail sits politically in SA, we need to develop or permanently obtain the expertise behind it to help drive down cost. It shouldn't be as expensive as it is.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:46 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:19 pm

rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:53 pm

Agreed. But I think that Koutsantonis's point is that they didn't help win.

The tram extensions are expensive. From a political perspective spending large amounts of money only makes sense if it looks like winning an election.

If it wasn't a winner in 2018, and wasn't even discussed in 2022, is it going to be a winner in 2026?

I don't think it's about it being or not being a winner, it wasn't a major policy because there were other priorities they focused on that did win them the election.
Like, who cares about tram extensions when people are dying in the back of ambulances or waiting for an ambulance, while the Lib gov. wants to build a new stadium?

2022 was ramping/health care taking priority over a new stadium.

Aren't you saying the same thing? Ambulances, and doing something about ramping was the winner. Trams were not. They weren't even mentioned.

Now, personally, I think they could make a difference if the polls are close in 2026. But according to the article, Konstantonis certainly doesn't, and I think he has more say than I. Of course, being a politician, he will backflip if required.

Basically yes, but I don't think they left out a tram policy in 2022 because they didn't think it would be a winner, but because they realized the big issue for people was the hospital/health care/ramping crisis and that's what they shot their shot with and it worked. They played it politically smart to get back into power.

The article makes it sound like trams are off the table now. But I don't think that's the case. They'd be crazy to rule them out.
Personally I think they're playing politics as usual. They have every intention of expanding the tram network, but we wont hear about it for a few years.
It'll be like an ace up their sleeve. The diesel trains on the Outer Harbor line have about ten years of service life left in them apparently. That makes the 2026 election year interesting because we could see a plan/policy come out then, with work starting with the Outer Harbour line as part of the plan should Labor win.

First look at designs for Cross and Marion Road overpasses.

Latest update info sheet from department:
https://dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf ... Update.pdf

Key features include:
• new Tram Stop 10 located between Marion Road and CrossRoad
• new open community space and free-flow connections under the tram line
• lifts and stairs on the western and eastern sides of Marion Road
• elevated Mike Turtur Bikeway and shared use path alongside tram tracks

As part of the project, the capacity of turning lanes will be increased at the intersections of:
• Marion Road and Anzac Highway
• Marion Road and Cross Road

These upgrades will further ease congestion and improve travel times and safety.

Concept plans are currently being developed for the intersection upgrades and will be released shortly.

Construction is expected to commence mid-2024 and complete late 2025. To allow faster construction (and in a personal blow to me), the tram line will be closed for 6-9 months and replaced by substitute buses. I don't know what that means for City section without access to Glengowrie depot.

Didn’t they have temporary tracks to the side when building the South Rd overpass? Why not do the same again?

SRW wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:27 am

Construction is expected to commence mid-2024 and complete late 2025. To allow faster construction (and in a personal blow to me), the tram line will be closed for 6-9 months and replaced by substitute buses. I don't know what that means for City section without access to Glengowrie depot.

They could always build a temporary tram shed in the parklands, I'm sure ACC would be fully supportive where it benefits city residents and workers in keeping the trams running

Sounds to me that the entire tram network will be closed during the works as the South Road overpass is also going to be partially rebuilt to accommodate the North South Motorway.

Wasn't it mentioned earlier in the thread that this project includes a new depot at Hindmarsh or Thebarton? Perhaps that will be completed before the line is severed.

claybro wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:42 pm

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rev wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:19 pm

Then again the way our state politics runs, it could drag out to the 2030 election and a blame game of who let the diesel trains reach the end of life without a solution.

Agreed, and then the most likely outcome then will be to just close Grange spur.and Belair..and bung some wires along OH line with no further upgrades to stations et, and throw some more buses at Belair. No proper planning. Get ready for all the trackless bus-tram or in true Adelaide style-Obahn proposals to be dusted off to muddy the waters and make it look like they are doing something.

Belair should be upgraded and extended to at least Mt Barker - there are diesel/electric trains that could lower the electricity arm to pass under tunnels. What is needed is to move the freight lines up north so they can be double stacked. Putting on more buses to Belair is a joke, that will just turn patrons away from public transport resulting in more cars on the road.

Which line do you use claybro? Gawler or Seaford? how would you like that closed and replaced with buses.

Recently I watched a video on Youtube of a redhen running between Bridgewater and Adelaide, it took about 50 minutes from Bridgewater to Adelaide and that ran semi express (all stops to Belair, then express to Blackwood then express to Adelaide). Mind you it did have to wait in a passing loop before Belair as it had to wait for freight train to pass. A Vlocity train might be a little faster and be close journey times to the 864 from Bridgewater to Adelaide but vary a fair amount between Mount Barker and Adelaide (compared with 840x).

Not 100% sure but what it sounded like on the radio this morning was;

Trams to continue running in the city at a minimum, but some kind of shuttle bus service down the line.


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AG wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:50 am

Sounds to me that the entire tram network will be closed during the works as the South Road overpass is also going to be partially rebuilt to accommodate the North South Motorway.

A media release on the project website speaks of a section of the line being closed. Jon Whelan, DIT CEO, was interviewed on ABC Radio Adelaide Breakfast and said the intention was to retain a fleet of trams to run services in the CBD. They were investigating how best to maintain this fleet.