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Weren't they originally going to put the tram loop line down currie and grenfell st?

HeapsGood wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:13 pm

Labor really needs to bring back its plans to extend the Tram lines.

A tram line loop through the city going through East Tce / Hutt / Wakefield / Grote / West Tce or Morphett would be ideal. Would service new developments being the Arcade and hotels/apartments.

An extension of the line to O'Connell st.

Extend the Nth Tce line to the Parade.

For better or worse that was a key part of policy they took to an election that they lost and it seems unlikely to come back into discussion for at least a decade or more. Similar with the city tram loop although I can see that coming around during Labors next term if they win the next state election. Would be very surprised if they even make it policy for the next election though, the current leadership doesn't seem enthusiastic on trams.

Is that corridor (Currie/Grenfell) wide enough to be the major bus through-route and handle trams as well? There is currently only one lane each way for traffic, which is occasionally used by busses as well, when they need to pass a bus that is stopped in the bus lane to pick up or drop off passengers.

rhino wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 2:13 pm

Is that corridor (Currie/Grenfell) wide enough to be the major bus through-route and handle trams as well? There is currently only one lane each way for traffic, which is occasionally used by busses as well, when they need to pass a bus that is stopped in the bus lane to pick up or drop off passengers.

It would take some juggling -so that tram stops are not in line with bus stops, as the tram stops require raised platforms now. Also, the tram tracks would not be able to sit on a raised bed, but sit flat to allow the buses to use the corridor to get around other parked buses. Might also require closing the carpark entry and severely restrict through traffic of private cars. Another option is to use side platforms for the trams and allow busses to use the tram right of way...but this would become too congested due to the volume of buses, and slow loading. hmm. .Adelaide? this is never going to happen. The East/West tram route would therefore be better for Grote. -wider and quieter- or even Franklin if they don't want to hack through the middle of Vic square.

Yes, Franklyn/Flinders would be my suggestion.

claybro wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:15 pm

rhino wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 2:13 pm

Is that corridor (Currie/Grenfell) wide enough to be the major bus through-route and handle trams as well? There is currently only one lane each way for traffic, which is occasionally used by busses as well, when they need to pass a bus that is stopped in the bus lane to pick up or drop off passengers.

It would take some juggling -so that tram stops are not in line with bus stops, as the tram stops require raised platforms now. Also, the tram tracks would not be able to sit on a raised bed, but sit flat to allow the buses to use the corridor to get around other parked buses. Might also require closing the carpark entry and severely restrict through traffic of private cars. Another option is to use side platforms for the trams and allow busses to use the tram right of way...but this would become too congested due to the volume of buses, and slow loading. hmm. .Adelaide? this is never going to happen. The East/West tram route would therefore be better for Grote. -wider and quieter- or even Franklin if they don't want to hack through the middle of Vic square.

Using trams and buses on the same right of way would still ease congestion on Grenfell and Currie.

Similarly, just as you could put trams down Franklin and Flinders, you could do the same with some of the buses going down Grenfell and Currie now. That is, take half the traffic from Grenfell, bus and/or tram, and send it down Franklin. Even without trams in the mix, Grenfell is overused, and Flinders is underused. That could be fixed in months, if not weeks.

The other thing done elsewhere is all door loading. The MTT did it here too. Again, just extend the O-Bahn practice to other buses. This really saves on the number of stops. If the dwell time at stops is halved, so is the number of stops.

So, balance the load between Flinders and Grenfell St corridors and reduce the number of stops. Absolutely minimal cost and could be ready for Christmas.

Jingle tram bells

Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:50 pm

Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

Yep. However, I'd still settle for an improvement in the balance between Grenfell and Flinders Streets.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:07 pm

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:50 pm

Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

Yep. However, I'd still settle for an improvement in the balance between Grenfell and Flinders Streets.

Grenfel street is heavily used, but with good reason. Its proximity to the core CBD particularly office towers constructed since the 70's, and access to Rundle Mall. Until recent years, most activity in the CBD really centered around about 4 blocks and the railway station. The Obahn further concentrated activity on Grenfel/ Currie by sending all its buses along the route, and building a depot/turnaround at the end of Currie, -then the tunnel-which goes directly to Grenfel. I wonder if any Obahn passengers would appreciate their service being moved to Flinders after years of Grenefl?.. particularly the added time of a left and right turn to get to Franklin off the Obahn track. In hindsight, it was poor planning not to include a bus tunnel under Grenfel street when the Obahn was built, particularly as they were already considering a train tunnel for the original rail proposal to Vic Square. Seems they were seduced by the low cost option of Obhan...and were lured into the quick cheap solution all the way.

[Shuz] wrote:Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

Pretty dumb to be honest.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:10 am

[Shuz] wrote:Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

Pretty dumb to be honest.

It was put to an election in 2018. The ALP lost. Neither party brought it up in 2022. Neither did the public. Nor did it sway the local electorate enough to count.

If the electorate at large and in Adelaide didn't rate it highly enough, why should either side of politics pursue it? People posting here are interested, but the rest of the community plainly doesn't care.

Add to that, there are big problems in health.

The community had an opportunity to move forward in 2018 and expand the tram system to a really viable size. It decided not to, and has now moved on. Of course, we can still have fun discussing "what ifs" here. But it's pretty much a fantasy if anyone thinks trams are going to be on the agenda unless the next election looks extremely tight. Even then, a clever opposition could nix it. Hmmm.

And this is what irritates me. In 2023, good public transport policy and infrastructure should be above politics, and not left to the mercy of elections.

Will incessant urban sprawl become an electoral issue?

rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:37 am

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:10 am

[Shuz] wrote:Mali has ruled out trams in his current term of government.

Pretty dumb to be honest.

It was put to an election in 2018. The ALP lost. Neither party brought it up in 2022. Neither did the public. Nor did it sway the local electorate enough to count.

If the electorate at large and in Adelaide didn't rate it highly enough, why should either side of politics pursue it? People posting here are interested, but the rest of the community plainly doesn't care.

Add to that, there are big problems in health.

The community had an opportunity to move forward in 2018 and expand the tram system to a really viable size. It decided not to, and has now moved on. Of course, we can still have fun discussing "what ifs" here. But it's pretty much a fantasy if anyone thinks trams are going to be on the agenda unless the next election looks extremely tight. Even then, a clever opposition could nix it. Hmmm.

Labor lost that election because the murdoch media ran a relentless campaign that we need a change in government for the sake of just having a change.

On the premier ruling out a tram extension during his first term..I take that as meaning they aren't going to start building anything.
But I'd be very surprised if they weren't looking at something, such as extending up through O'connell St & a city loop.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:45 am

And this is what irritates me. In 2023, good public transport policy and infrastructure should be above politics, and not left to the mercy of elections.

Will incessant urban sprawl become an electoral issue?

This. As far as I'm aware, in no other state do either party come to the election table without significant public transport projects, especially in Victoria, whilst both offer vastly different ideas, they still have ideas.

This state Liberal bullshit of putting nothing substantial forward, other than a couple of park n rides, a feasibility study for some non-sensible tram extensions within the CBD, plus a few new buses. Only then to deliver on none of those but rather privatising the operational side of our rail networks and consolidate our bus network, but then still harp on about trying to grow Adelaide and South Australia, whilst strangling an existing PT system necessary for the desired growth.

I really think a loop which goes down Grote/Wakefield is the most logical solution.
Firstly, it’s wide enough. Secondly, it provides connection to key destinations in the CBD - Central Market, Chinatown and Gouger St. It’s also useful for connecting to secondary locations such as Calvary Hospital and numerous private schools located in the city.
Finally, a tram down Grote/Wakefield would clearly spur residential apartment development on these streets, which would provide a more appealing entry for visitors entering the CBD from the airport. I’ve always felt that so much more could be done with the appearance of Grote St when entering the CBD from Sir Donald Bradman Dr.
Currie/Grenfell St is easily served by the North Tce tram, and Sturt/Halifax provides no destination of note.