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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:20 pm
by 1NEEDS2POST
how good is he wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:27 pm
Even if its finished in 10 years that's only 1 km a year on average for the 10kms of road... plus the cost of probably $1 billion per km.. something is wrong. TBMs can do 10-15 kms in one year... even allowing 2-3 years to complete it would be fair... but 10 -15 years?
When a TBM is set up and running, it costs little to keep it going. If they're going to use a TBM for a small tunnel, they may as well use the TBM to tunnel the whole lot.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:08 am
by croweater888
https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construc ... g-machines
At 0:25 the Engineer says that this TBM bores approximately 10m a day. I am not sure of the exact length of what we are proposing in SA, but that's 1km for every 100 days, or 3.6km in 1 year.
Unless the amount of tunnels is far more wide reaching than we all realise, I fail to see why it would take 10 years to complete this project.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:54 am
by how good is he
Yes and that 10m a day is doing the lining/building the tunnel at the same time and is based on the hydrogeology and geology for the tunnel [rock etc] for the Metro tunnel in Melbourne. A good read on TBMs is-
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en ... ng-machine
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:47 pm
by rev
Ten years..Are the unions heavily involved?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:54 pm
by SBD
Is there any rock where the tunnels would be, or is it all clay/sand floodplain? I have no idea which is faster to safely drill through with no collapse.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:43 pm
by ginzahikari
SRW wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:11 pm
The InDaily article is a little more coherent:
https://indaily.com.au/news/2020/10/19/ ... lay-labor/
If it's to be believed, we're on on track to get the reverse of what most expected: a tunnel from Tonsley to Anzac, and lowered/at-grade hybrid from Anzac to Torrens. That leaves live the question of how to manage the built environment of Thebarton and Henley that would have been avoided by tunnelling there instead.
Where can I find the leaked documents? On today's Advertiser the interviewees had access to the documents, realising their property is going to be demolished according to a map.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:36 pm
by croweater888
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... d9a1cbe59f
I think that the article to which you are referring, see link above, is intentionally written to make it sound like the residents have seen the document, but they haven't.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:24 pm
by Bacon
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:33 pm
by NTRabbit
I was told this weekend that the Feds are refusing to commit major funding to the main stretch, even if the state Libs had a shovel ready plan for the infrastructure stimulus money on time, because there's no business case that can be written up which shows it will make a profit.
No profit means zero funding, which is why all of this is leaking out now.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 pm
by how good is he
Can you just elaborate what you mean/understand how a road can make a profit? Do you mean a cost/benefit analysis? I am curious do you know how they value/ monetise the economic benefits?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm
by Norman
That's odd, because the federal government has already committed billions of dollars for that last stretch.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:52 pm
by croweater888
NTRabbit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:33 pm
I was told this weekend that the Feds are refusing to commit major funding to the main stretch, even if the state Libs had a shovel ready plan for the infrastructure stimulus money on time, because there's no business case that can be written up which shows it will make a profit.
No profit means zero funding, which is why all of this is leaking out now.
I'd treat that as scuttlebutt.
The KPMG report from earlier in the year showed that it had a positive CBA.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:53 pm
by NTRabbit
how good is he wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 pm
Can you just elaborate what you mean/understand how a road can make a profit? Do you mean a cost/benefit analysis? I am curious do you know how they value/ monetise the economic benefits?
Yes a CBA, and no I have no idea. I have a few Civ Eng friends, and Adelaide being tiny, they've all had some kind of contact with DTEI/DPTI/DIT related to South Rd over the years, one very current.
Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm
That's odd, because the federal government has already committed billions of dollars for that last stretch.
Actually committed, or forward estimates?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:21 pm
by Goodsy
how good is he wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 pm
Can you just elaborate what you mean/understand how a road can make a profit? Do you mean a cost/benefit analysis? I am curious do you know how they value/ monetise the economic benefits?
Increased productivity eventually leads to increased tax income
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:56 pm
by how good is he
So basically you are saying the Govt will give with one hand if it can get it back with another... at a later stage.
