News & Discussion: Trams

[ChillyPhilly]

He will have learned from Dan Andrews, where the level crossing removal project in Melbourne was so popular largely because it benefited motorists so much.

That said, the Skyrail in Melbourne delivered benefits to far more than cars. Mixed reactions as of 2019, but I believe subsequent opinion has been more positive.

https://www.foreground.com.au/transport ... ns-learnt/

[rubberman]

He will have learned from Dan Andrews, where the level crossing removal project in Melbourne was so popular largely because it benefited motorists so much.

Yes. I hope this money comes from road funding, and hasn't been diverted from tram extensions.

[SRW]

It's odd that they seem to have gone out of their way to not show how access to the depot will be handled. It's cropped out of every render and the video, and no mention is made of it in either the press release or the project website.

Yes, curious. I wonder if they're keeping their powder dry for a future announcement. Given Stop 13 is being rebuilt closer to Morphett Road, if they're relocating the tram depot, perhaps they'll also have a 'Housing Roadmap' branded announcement for the Glengowrie site.

[Nort]

Reading the premier’s announcement is telling, with it solely discussing the project’s benefits for motorists.

Good, far too often these sorts of projects are promoted as public transport improvements when they are doing nothing of the sort, and are used to bolster non-existent PT credentials.

[Nathan]

It's odd that they seem to have gone out of their way to not show how access to the depot will be handled. It's cropped out of every render and the video, and no mention is made of it in either the press release or the project website.

Yes, curious. I wonder if they're keeping their powder dry for a future announcement. Given Stop 13 is being rebuilt closer to Morphett Road, if they're relocating the tram depot, perhaps they'll also have a 'Housing Roadmap' branded announcement for the Glengowrie site.

They must have some kind of plan in place, because they've also said the Botanic line will continue running even while the Glenelg line is closed. Surely they're not going to just have the trams queued up at the terminuses over night.

[SouthAussie94]

It's odd that they seem to have gone out of their way to not show how access to the depot will be handled. It's cropped out of every render and the video, and no mention is made of it in either the press release or the project website.

Yes, curious. I wonder if they're keeping their powder dry for a future announcement. Given Stop 13 is being rebuilt closer to Morphett Road, if they're relocating the tram depot, perhaps they'll also have a 'Housing Roadmap' branded announcement for the Glengowrie site.

They must have some kind of plan in place, because they've also said the Botanic line will continue running even while the Glenelg line is closed. Surely they're not going to just have the trams queued up at the terminuses over night.

There isn't much time for an announcement to be made and for a new depot to be built before the tram line is closed in late 2025.

[Waewick]

https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2024/09 ... ed-by-2036


It would be great to have a plan ready for when we finally have the political will to execute it.

[gnrc_louis]

https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2024/09 ... ed-by-2036


It would be great to have a plan ready for when we finally have the political will to execute it.

Can't see this current government or the Tarzia led opposition pushing for more rail, unfortunately.

[abc]

https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2024/09 ... ed-by-2036


It would be great to have a plan ready for when we finally have the political will to execute it.

Can't see this current government or the Tarzia led opposition pushing for more rail, unfortunately.

rail is a massive ongoing cost to the government when we have public hospitals in a state of crisis

[Patrick_27]

Neither party will commit to rail whilst we continue to have taxpayers obsessed with our state government's debt management. Not to advocate too far the other way, but the current Victorian government have soared the state's debt to numbers beyond comprehension but in doing so have delivered generational changes across the board (infrastructure, education, health and so forth), whether one agrees with how they've gone about those changes is up for debate but they're big changes nonetheless. I just want to see a state government (Labor or Liberal led) with the balls to do somewhat of the same. This cautious and meticulous spending habit we seem to have adopted in SA since the state bank collapse doesn't bode well with both forecasted population growth alongside the desired population growth from both local and state government(s) as well as business groups. We're not moving ahead with the projects we need done or the projects we want done, and those projects that are getting done are happening in such a way that the final product either hasn't met expectations of the regular joe or hasn't delivered the outcomes that were required. Our light and heavy rail networks need an overhaul, in their current forms they aren't going to encourage the masses to swap out their car for a train or tram, and because of that they also aren't going to deliver a return on what little investment is made to keep them afloat. Adelaide's population needs to shift beyond its private vehicle dependency, and with a cost of living crisis apparently among us, what better time to be encouraging public transport use and subsequently invest in what we have already and plan for the future. Electrification of our entire rail network should take priority, having a plan for expansion should also be there. With trams (because after all, this is a tram thread), ADLLink should be resurrected, re-scrutinised and costed; let Infrastructure Australia decide what they may or may not wish to put forward for Federal Government funding. I think we might all be surprised what they see as necessary for our public transport network (i.e. Adelaide Airport, North Adelaide and City Loop light rail), I say this because Gold Coast and Sydney are building up their light rail with help from sizeable contributions from the Feds.

[dbl96]

https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2024/09 ... ed-by-2036


It would be great to have a plan ready for when we finally have the political will to execute it.

Can't see this current government or the Tarzia led opposition pushing for more rail, unfortunately.

rail is a massive ongoing cost to the government when we have public hospitals in a state of crisis

Light rail really isn’t very expensive in the scheme of things. The most recent North Tce / King William tram extension including the complicated ‘grand junction’ cost about $100 million, which is as much money as Marshall’s government spent upgrading one signalised intersection at Magill/Portrush Rd.

Obviously prices have increased across the board since those two projects were completed, but the comparison still stands. Major road projects cost more on a per km basis than light rail. In the case of South Rd, it is something like 10-15x the per km cost of light rail.

That said, based on these costings, I don’t think the councillor is too far off the mark when he says the city loop would cost $500 million +. The full route doesn’t look long on the map because it loops around, but it would actually require 4-5 km of new track. It would be a great thing if it was built, but I don’t think building the whole thing should be a priority over other tram projects like an extension to Norwood, North Adelaide/Prospect, or Unley Rd/Pulteney St which would deliver more bang for buck. Much of the city loop route runs through relatively quiet areas in the south of the city. The one section of the loop which would be worthwhile building as a matter of priority would be an extension along Hutt St.

ADLLink should be resurrected, re-scrutinised and costed; let Infrastructure Australia decide what they may or may not wish to put forward for Federal Government funding. I think we might all be surprised what they see as necessary for our public transport network (i.e. Adelaide Airport, North Adelaide and City Loop light rail), I say this because Gold Coast and Sydney are building up their light rail with help from sizeable contributions from the Feds.

You may remember that AdeLink was deemed a priority project by Infrastructure Australia, and received a commitment of significant funds from the Commonwealth, which the Marshall government chose not to make use of for political (anti-tram) reasons.

[SouthAussie94]

Early works at Morphett Road have commenced. Looks to be underground service relocation.

[rubberman]

An ABC piece about Labor abandoning further tram extensions. With a bit about trackless trams thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-23/ ... /104377552

First thought. From a political perspective, voters had a choice in 2018. Either Labor with a solid plan, or the Liberal's 'promise to look at trams'. We voted Liberal, meaning that tram extensions were dead. No proposals were made at the 2022 election, so no promises were broken.

Politically, we made our choice. No trams.

Second thought. If trams were truly economic, as Labor stated in 2018, then they are even more so today, given traffic increases and residential buildup along proposed tram routes. So Labor should be doing something to address transport issues on those routes. OR, trams were just an election stunt by Labor in 2018, weren't economic, and Labor was lying about the economics.

The real problem is that neither party can really be trusted on this.

[abc]

An ABC piece about Labor abandoning further tram extensions. With a bit about trackless trams thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-23/ ... /104377552

First thought. From a political perspective, voters had a choice in 2018. Either Labor with a solid plan, or the Liberal's 'promise to look at trams'. We voted Liberal, meaning that tram extensions were dead. No proposals were made at the 2022 election, so no promises were broken.

Politically, we made our choice. No trams.

Second thought. If trams were truly economic, as Labor stated in 2018, then they are even more so today, given traffic increases and residential buildup along proposed tram routes. So Labor should be doing something to address transport issues on those routes. OR, trams were just an election stunt by Labor in 2018, weren't economic, and Labor was lying about the economics.

The real problem is that neither party can really be trusted on this.

or maybe they're just not economic

[rubberman]

An ABC piece about Labor abandoning further tram extensions. With a bit about trackless trams thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-23/ ... /104377552

First thought. From a political perspective, voters had a choice in 2018. Either Labor with a solid plan, or the Liberal's 'promise to look at trams'. We voted Liberal, meaning that tram extensions were dead. No proposals were made at the 2022 election, so no promises were broken.

Politically, we made our choice. No trams.

Second thought. If trams were truly economic, as Labor stated in 2018, then they are even more so today, given traffic increases and residential buildup along proposed tram routes. So Labor should be doing something to address transport issues on those routes. OR, trams were just an election stunt by Labor in 2018, weren't economic, and Labor was lying about the economics.

The real problem is that neither party can really be trusted on this.

or maybe they're just not economic

I said that was a possibility. So, er, yes.