News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Spotto]

The seafoam green is original but might be standing out more to you due to the new lighting and fresh coat. I think it's lovely and completely appropriate.

I guess my eyes were never drawn up in the ramp area before. The new lighting is definitely a massive improvement.

[Llessur2002]

Doors are out already:



On another note - I hope the Seppelt's sign gets restored. I'm sure I remember it being lit up not that long ago - maybe in the last 5-10 years?

[rubberman]

I'd suggest that if the option of standardising the Belair Line were seriously looked at, then a service to Two Wells and Virginia should also be in play. Those are perfect for heavy rail. Long station spacing allowing high speeds, playing to heavy rail's prime advantages. Plus, the area is fast developing. Get people used to fast rail, rather than have them used to driving into town. Wait five years, and they'll be welded to their cars.

Plus, of course, the work required in the Adelaide Yard is more economical if it's done for two lines, rather than one.

Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.

The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.

[SRW]

On another note - I hope the Seppelt's sign gets restored. I'm sure I remember it being lit up not that long ago - maybe in the last 5-10 years?

+1

Similarly, I'd love to see the Haigh's sign restored at Beehive Corner. From memory, there was a proposal in the last couple years to restore the balcony that was removed when the Mall was pedestrianized. I was hopeful they would fix the sign at the same time.

[SBD]

I'd suggest that if the option of standardising the Belair Line were seriously looked at, then a service to Two Wells and Virginia should also be in play. Those are perfect for heavy rail. Long station spacing allowing high speeds, playing to heavy rail's prime advantages. Plus, the area is fast developing. Get people used to fast rail, rather than have them used to driving into town. Wait five years, and they'll be welded to their cars.

Plus, of course, the work required in the Adelaide Yard is more economical if it's done for two lines, rather than one.

Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.

The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.

Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.

[claybro]

thanks for the photos of the Adelaide station revamp everyone who has posted them. The Adelaide station is by far the most beautiful station in Australia IMO, and I cant wait to see it in person now the upgrades are being completed.

[AndyWelsh]

A couple from today:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[how good is he]

See my tram post - adding or a new train stop?

[rubberman]

Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.

The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.

Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.

Unfortunately, now that South Road and Port Wakefield Roads have been upgraded, the choice now is between providing a rail alternative or not providing one and people using South Rd etc for their daily commute. Once entrenched in their cars, there's no way back, and no chance of a heavy rail presence. This is what happened in the north east suburbs. No heavy rail, and maybe a busway...for which no provision has been made...

I understand your wishing for certain outcomes. In a way, I agree. However, people go where they can afford housing, then travel from there to wherever. If that's the CBD, so be it, unfortunately. So, like we could have a century ago, had a decent rail service to the North East, but didn't, are we now at the point where we could plan for a decent rail service to the North...but we don't? Not thinking about it, is actually ensuring it doesn't happen.

[SBD]

The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.

Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.

Unfortunately, now that South Road and Port Wakefield Roads have been upgraded, the choice now is between providing a rail alternative or not providing one and people using South Rd etc for their daily commute. Once entrenched in their cars, there's no way back, and no chance of a heavy rail presence. This is what happened in the north east suburbs. No heavy rail, and maybe a busway...for which no provision has been made...

I understand your wishing for certain outcomes. In a way, I agree. However, people go where they can afford housing, then travel from there to wherever. If that's the CBD, so be it, unfortunately. So, like we could have a century ago, had a decent rail service to the North East, but didn't, are we now at the point where we could plan for a decent rail service to the North...but we don't? Not thinking about it, is actually ensuring it doesn't happen.

Looking at the top industries employing people from Virginia in 2016, I doubt many of those industries have a large presence in the CBD. A little further down the page is travel to work - a significantly higher proportion of people in Buckland Park and Virginia walk to work than the national average. Overall, Adelaide metro area is below the national average. it seems like at present, people choose not to live in that area and commute to the CBD. Why would we want to encourage city workers to move there?

• Virginia
• Buckland Park
• Greater Adelaide

Once it's finished, we should have a good rail service through the east side of the northern suburbs to Gawler for people who want to live in outer suburbs and commute to the city. I'm happy to let the western side continue to be the food bowl of the state, mostly employing locals. I think the state would get a much better value outcome by improving transport services to help people to leave their cars at home for their current commutes, rather than in helping them to live further away from where they work.

[Nort]

You make some very good points considering the short term, however in the long term if we look at all the interstate and overseas examples it's highly likely that these affordable satellite towns eventually become city suburbs.

In 25 years do you think it's likely there won't be lots of travel into the city? What about 50? If we don't build with those futures in mind we are building big problems to deal with down the line. If the land isn't set aside now for dealing with it it may never be solvable.

For all we might try to argue that those people shouldn't live there it is a fact that they will, and also the marketing for this project is actively talking about the freeway connection to the city.

[how good is he]

I think land/housing affordability will be the biggest issue esp. for future generations of first homebuyers. Even with stage 1 of new developments some one hour from Adelaide, fully complete house and land packages are around the $500k and land around $500sqm.
So what will prices be for later stages ie 5-10, maybe $1m plus? So what is the answer, for towns/cities [and trains/PT] to keep going further out to make them "affordable"?

[SBD]

You make some very good points considering the short term, however in the long term if we look at all the interstate and overseas examples it's highly likely that these affordable satellite towns eventually become city suburbs.

In 25 years do you think it's likely there won't be lots of travel into the city? What about 50? If we don't build with those futures in mind we are building big problems to deal with down the line. If the land isn't set aside now for dealing with it it may never be solvable.

For all we might try to argue that those people shouldn't live there it is a fact that they will, and also the marketing for this project is actively talking about the freeway connection to the city.

There are lots of crystal ball questions in forecasting commuter patterns 25 and fifty years into the future. The key points are that government policy can influence where people choose to live and work, and climate change may or may not change the economic conditions of market garden/vegetable production in the Vrginia-Two Wells area/ That and technology could change the workforce requirements too.

Adelaide seems to have removed or never had much public transport to blue collar jobs.

[SBD]

I think land/housing affordability will be the biggest issue esp. for future generations of first homebuyers. Even with stage 1 of new developments some one hour from Adelaide, fully complete house and land packages are around the $500k and land around $500sqm.
So what will prices be for later stages ie 5-10, maybe $1m plus? So what is the answer, for towns/cities [and trains/PT] to keep going further out to make them "affordable"?

I think the solution is to have more "town centres" in the state.

Compare SA to northern California - Cupertino is a separate town centre from San Jose, and they are both only an hour or so from San Francisco.

[Nort]

You make some very good points considering the short term, however in the long term if we look at all the interstate and overseas examples it's highly likely that these affordable satellite towns eventually become city suburbs.

In 25 years do you think it's likely there won't be lots of travel into the city? What about 50? If we don't build with those futures in mind we are building big problems to deal with down the line. If the land isn't set aside now for dealing with it it may never be solvable.

For all we might try to argue that those people shouldn't live there it is a fact that they will, and also the marketing for this project is actively talking about the freeway connection to the city.

There are lots of crystal ball questions in forecasting commuter patterns 25 and fifty years into the future. The key points are that government policy can influence where people choose to live and work, and climate change may or may not change the economic conditions of market garden/vegetable production in the Vrginia-Two Wells area/ That and technology could change the workforce requirements too.

Adelaide seems to have removed or never had much public transport to blue collar jobs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% onboard with the idea that we shouldn't be building a new suburb-to-be out there, but it's happening.