News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[omada]

Agree with the sentiment here, very good points raised yes for Wingard to say its not viable without conducting any analysis or study is a crock!

Happy to spend on roads and sports stadiums, but not long term structural infrastructure

[Patrick_27]

The real problem is neither the Liberal Party or the Labor Party have articulated a holistic plan for Adelaide Metro rail network and services, and therefore piecemeal thought bubbles, discussions and proposals keep popping up rather than working to an agreed masterplan, regardless of who is in Government.

These elements need to be put into a plan to decide the outcome with a masterplan and timeframes, and those elements that are rejected would need to be identified as such, that they will not be part of the future. Where is Infrastructure SA in all of this – this should be part of their remit, surely?

Would require a decision where the ARTC Ade-Mel rail link goes in the long term so planning for the Adelaide Metro rail network can make some of these decisions around that.

Here is my list that require a decision:

Rail gauge for the network – broad or standard
Level crossing removals
Grange branch line future
Port Adelaide CBD direct rail link
PA to OH heavy or light rail line including Osborne link
PA and/or OH electrification
Belair electrification
City direct underground link including new stations at Hindmarsh Sq and Victoria Sq
Identify key stations that double as multi transit hubs for upgrades
Identify stations for closure
Aldinga extension
Roseworthy extension
Concordia extension
Is rail viable to Mt Barker, if so, how

I find it interesting that you've thrown three extensions into the mix as if they're viable and necessary meanwhile suggesting that a Mount Barker extension needs to be justified. Of all those you've mentioned, I would think Mount Barker make the most sense in terms of the growth that area has already experienced and is yet to experience further.

[SBD]

The real problem is neither the Liberal Party or the Labor Party have articulated a holistic plan for Adelaide Metro rail network and services, and therefore piecemeal thought bubbles, discussions and proposals keep popping up rather than working to an agreed masterplan, regardless of who is in Government.

These elements need to be put into a plan to decide the outcome with a masterplan and timeframes, and those elements that are rejected would need to be identified as such, that they will not be part of the future. Where is Infrastructure SA in all of this – this should be part of their remit, surely?

Would require a decision where the ARTC Ade-Mel rail link goes in the long term so planning for the Adelaide Metro rail network can make some of these decisions around that.

Here is my list that require a decision:

Rail gauge for the network – broad or standard
Level crossing removals
Grange branch line future
Port Adelaide CBD direct rail link
PA to OH heavy or light rail line including Osborne link
PA and/or OH electrification
Belair electrification
City direct underground link including new stations at Hindmarsh Sq and Victoria Sq
Identify key stations that double as multi transit hubs for upgrades
Identify stations for closure
Aldinga extension
Roseworthy extension
Concordia extension
Is rail viable to Mt Barker, if so, how

I find it interesting that you've thrown three extensions into the mix as if they're viable and necessary meanwhile suggesting that a Mount Barker extension needs to be justified. Of all those you've mentioned, I would think Mount Barker make the most sense in terms of the growth that area has already experienced and is yet to experience further.

Roseworthy and Concordia both have existing unused broad gauge tracks to them on relatively direct alignments from the current Adelaide Metro network. Aldinga also has a roughly straight and level corridor extension. They don't have to traverse the tallest mountain range in the Adelaide region and compete against a more direct freeway on a route too steep for railways.

[ChillyPhilly]

The real problem is neither the Liberal Party or the Labor Party have articulated a holistic plan for Adelaide Metro rail network and services, and therefore piecemeal thought bubbles, discussions and proposals keep popping up rather than working to an agreed masterplan, regardless of who is in Government.

These elements need to be put into a plan to decide the outcome with a masterplan and timeframes, and those elements that are rejected would need to be identified as such, that they will not be part of the future. Where is Infrastructure SA in all of this – this should be part of their remit, surely?

Would require a decision where the ARTC Ade-Mel rail link goes in the long term so planning for the Adelaide Metro rail network can make some of these decisions around that.

Here is my list that require a decision:

Rail gauge for the network – broad or standard
Level crossing removals
Grange branch line future
Port Adelaide CBD direct rail link
PA to OH heavy or light rail line including Osborne link
PA and/or OH electrification
Belair electrification
City direct underground link including new stations at Hindmarsh Sq and Victoria Sq
Identify key stations that double as multi transit hubs for upgrades
Identify stations for closure
Aldinga extension
Roseworthy extension
Concordia extension
Is rail viable to Mt Barker, if so, how

Brilliant list; my addition:

- Rail to Buckland Park/Virginia

[Spotto]

Aldinga extension
Roseworthy extension
Concordia extension
Is rail viable to Mt Barker, if so, how

I find it interesting that you've thrown three extensions into the mix as if they're viable and necessary meanwhile suggesting that a Mount Barker extension needs to be justified. Of all those you've mentioned, I would think Mount Barker make the most sense in terms of the growth that area has already experienced and is yet to experience further.

Roseworthy and Concordia both have existing unused broad gauge tracks to them on relatively direct alignments from the current Adelaide Metro network. Aldinga also has a roughly straight and level corridor extension. They don't have to traverse the tallest mountain range in the Adelaide region and compete against a more direct freeway on a route too steep for railways.

Also adding to that, the Aldinga extension is in a semi-active state of planning, or at the very least being considered in future development of adjacent land. The station precinct at Aldinga Beach is being planned to interface with the future station and rail corridor in mind, so this one is at least not “if” but “when”.

[Llessur2002]

More progress on the doors:

[how good is he]

I agree with the list/s but in reality do the marginal electorates go to the top of the list for Govt decisions/spending and/or more widely popular policies/spends made aka pork-barrelling? At the very least Infrastructure SA needs more of a voice/spokesperson to clearly prioritise projects with transparent cost/benefit analysis [ie show us the workings/results].

[PeFe]

ABC article on complaints about Adelaide public transport.

First of all the number of complaints rose during a period where Adelaide Metro conducted a passenger satisfaction survey.

Secondly the Gawler rail line is out of action because of electrification......the substitute buses were never going to be popular.

And the survey was conducted in the middle of Covid, this distorts the "reality" of the day......"is it safe to use public transport?"

"Privatisation" is blamed for less train services, but were there less train services? A campaign saying "you will receive less services" may create a perception that is not really there (think Trump style politics)

Adelaide Metro public transport complaints increase amid changes to train system


A train arrives at the Flinders station that opened in December.(ABC News: Eugene Boisvert)

Public transport complaints spiked in the first three months of the year as Adelaide commuters returned to trains, trams and buses in much lower numbers than before the coronavirus pandemic.

The number of complaints per 100,000 Adelaide Metro boardings rose to 15.83 in January–March 2021, according to new Department for Infrastructure and Transport figures.

The numbers per trip are the highest they have been since a spike in January–March 2018.

The raw number of complaints is also the highest it has been since mid-2019.

The number of Adelaide Metro boardings in the first three months of 2021 was 29 per cent lower than it was at the end of 2019, before the pandemic.

Key points:
Complaints about Adelaide public transport have increased
The number of commuters is down since the coronavirus pandemic
Substitute buses replacing trains on the closed Gawler line could be behind the rise

Commuters on the Gawler train line have been forced onto substitute buses until this November for electrification works after previously being told some services would resume in April.

Munno Para resident Grace Thon said the substitute buses meant a much longer trip to university.

"I have to wake up early just to make uni instead of sleeping — it takes away my sleep, basically," she said.

Her friend Acho Ayii said the buses could get crowded at busy times.


Privatisation behind complaints?
Keolis Downer took over running Adelaide's train system in January 2021.

Opposition transport spokesman Tom Koutsantonis said he believed the privatisation was the main reason behind the increase in complaints.

"I think privatisation has seen less amenity on our trains, there are less security guards now on trains, services are less frequent and less regular, there is obviously a shortage of train drivers, so I think what we are seeing here is a system in general decay," he said.

The government said the number of security guards on trains has doubled from 30 to 60 since January and the number of services overall has increased because of higher frequency on the extended Flinders line.

The figures do not break down which service complainants used, and Keolis Downer said it did not believe its trains were to blame.

"We have been out and about on the trains, meeting with passengers in the last four months, and we are hearing positive feedback on train cleanliness, performance and safety," a spokeswoman said.

"We are always open to feedback and ideas to improve our services, which is why our management team has been going out on the network every month to engage with passengers and collect their feedback."


Work is carried out on power lines during the Gawler rail electrification project.

Minister says system cleaner than ever
Transport Minister Corey Wingard admitted commuter numbers had been "hit" by COVID–19, but he said the government was "doing all we can to get people back on to public transport".

"We've invested heavily to make sure we keep our trains and our buses and our trams as clean as possible," he said.

"What we do know since Keolis Downer took over the running of the public transport is they've injected a lot into making sure our stations are cleaner than they ever have been before.

"A lot of the feedback we've had is people have noticed the cleanliness of those stations and also the trains themselves so we're continuing to work all the time with the new contractor who have got a track record of delivering outstanding customer service when it comes to public transport."

He said the Gawler line closure had "caused some issues for people".

"We've made that really clear. We've put all that information out to that community," he said.

"And we understand that when this is done — that is something they've been teased with for a long period of time — that will also get people back onto public transport."

Elderly staying away?
People for Public Transport spokeswoman Josephine Buckhorn said she had noticed fewer people on public transport, especially vulnerable users such as the elderly.

She said a key complaint of commuters was when services were cancelled or moved without notice.

"People often show up at the stop and find out when they get there — or their train is a bus," she said.

She said making people wear masks on buses could make people more confident to use them, although this was not a policy officially supported by the group.

Keolis Downer also faced criticism in March for strictly enforcing the number of bikes allowed on trains on the Belair line, although it has since relaxed its stance on the rule.


Mountain bikers complained after a restriction on the number of bicycles per carriage on the Belair line was enforced.(ABC Radio Adelaide: Malcolm Sutton)

The Tonsley line was extended to Flinders in December.

Passenger Priya Vemparala said the service was "really good".

"It is really beneficial for residents here because they don't have to wait for hours and hours together in the road traffic and it's so comfortable as well, to be frank, in the train as well," she said.

A separate privately-owned company took over running Adelaide's trams in July 2020.

Labor has promised to reverse the privatisation if elected next year, although it did not reverse bus privatisation when last in power.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-21/ ... /100149772

I was unable to reproduce all the graphs in the article so you will have to go to the original source to see those.

[SBD]

When the Gawler railway line was closed, it was going to reopen in stages, but now is completely closed until it is all finished. That is not going to be popular, and Labor can legitimately argue the full closure was a Liberal decision - because Labor was only going to electrify the southern bit!

The electrification is being done by the Government, and that line was not going to be handed over to Keolis Downer until the electrification is complete, so KD (as rail operator) cannot be blamed for the complaints on the substitute buses, although if (I don't know) they are separately one of the bus operators, they might be complained about if that service is not up to scratch. I have seen Kanga buses, but not sure if they all are.

[Spotto]

When the Gawler railway line was closed, it was going to reopen in stages, but now is completely closed until it is all finished. That is not going to be popular, and Labor can legitimately argue the full closure was a Liberal decision - because Labor was only going to electrify the southern bit!

Let’s not forget that Labor also did a full closure of the Noarlunga line for a year during electrification; the Tonsley line copped two straight years since the track renewal closure was immediately followed by electrification closure. Labor have the right to voice their concerns that the promised partial openings were scrapped, but they have no leg to stand on when complaining about the resulting full year closure.

The electrification is being done by the Government, and that line was not going to be handed over to Keolis Downer until the electrification is complete, so KD (as rail operator) cannot be blamed for the complaints on the substitute buses, although if (I don't know) they are separately one of the bus operators, they might be complained about if that service is not up to scratch. I have seen Kanga buses, but not sure if they all are.

Correct, KD have no involvement with the substitute buses. They position some of their staff to guide commuters to the correct buses, but the buses (including the ones they subcontract from Kanga) are the responsibility of Torrens Transit.

[ChillyPhilly]

It is fair to say the closure of the Gawler line has not been handled very well from a PR perspective.

However, there is no alternative than substitute buses. I lived in Salisbury from 2013 to November 2020, and it's a long trip to and from the CBD via road. The schedule had to allow an hour just to cover those 20 or so kilometres - and that was the direct service.

That said, I actually found the replacement buses to be handled well; they were nearly always precise to schedule.

What I don't see is any form of positive promotion of the benefits of using public transport. It should be advertised on TV, on the radio, out in the public and more. Imagine being able to utilise a cost savings calculator to show the environmental, economic, social and time benefits of ditching the car for a bus or train.

[Norman]

What I don't see is any form of positive promotion of the benefits of using public transport. It should be advertised on TV, on the radio, out in the public and more. Imagine being able to utilise a cost savings calculator to show the environmental, economic, social and time benefits of ditching the car for a bus or train.

They used to have exactly what you just talked about... A calculator and ad campaign claiming you can save up to $10,000 per year by catching public transport. That was 20 years ago... Not sure why they can't implement this now?

[ChillyPhilly]

What I don't see is any form of positive promotion of the benefits of using public transport. It should be advertised on TV, on the radio, out in the public and more. Imagine being able to utilise a cost savings calculator to show the environmental, economic, social and time benefits of ditching the car for a bus or train.

They used to have exactly what you just talked about... A calculator and ad campaign claiming you can save up to $10,000 per year by catching public transport. That was 20 years ago... Not sure why they can't implement this now?

I recall flyers and posters with a couple on the beach, tanning. It said almost precisely this:

Q: How did I afford to go on this holiday?
A: I used Adelaide Metro to get to work!

[Joelmark]

I vaguely remember the State Transport Authority’s (STA) “see you later alligator... catch a ride with a friend” TV jingle from the early 90s with people boarding buses and 3000 class railcars...

[Spotto]

Some wayfinding signage in the new black and yellow (Hello!) style at Flinders station. Not sure how long it's been here for, haven't been to this station for some months.