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Llessur2002 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:07 pm

So would the O-bahn be better as heavy rail?

If a N/E rapid transit system was to be built these days heavy rail with a 4km tunnel between Walkerville and the North Adelaide Rail station may have been a viable option. The only thing is it would have required, as a prerequisite, an underground CBD link.

The O-Bahn would be better as light rail......and way way cheaper than heavy rail.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:46 pm

The O-Bahn would be better as light rail......and way way cheaper than heavy rail.

No.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:46 pm

The O-Bahn would be better as light rail......and way way cheaper than heavy rail.

Why not both bus and tram? Any busway could have rails embedded for little extra cost. Running buses and trams on the same space is actually normal practice. Neither mode precludes the other. Doing both provides the ultimate flexibility.

The O-Bahn, (or trackless tram as the spindoctors would describe it. lololol) is 35 years old, so when it comes up for major maintenance, why not install rails...and overhead wiring (or OCS as jargon has it these days) for buses and trams?

Upgrading O-Bahn to rail isn't something that needs to be considered until either of the following occur:

1. Capacity is reached or exceeded
2. Track infrastructure needs replacing

If/when capacity is reached, I very much doubt light rail would be a suitable long term solution to deal with such volumes and ongoing growth.

Until such time, there's many other areas for PT infrastructure investment which are far more pressing.

My top items in terms of heavy rail infrastructure would be:

1. Making the Seaford / Gawler lines a through route as ARS is already nearing capacity at peak. New lines/services really can't be considered until this occurs.
2. Planning and assessing options for a new rail alignment for the Adelaide Hills / Mount Barker.
3. Electrification of the OH/Port Adelaide Lines + Future plan for Grange Line, Electrify or replace with tram extension via Grange Road to Henley.
4. Conducting a full review of each line - including the location and number of stations, target travel times, and bus integration.

I wouldn't even consider extending Seaford to Alginga until the above are addressed, let alone looking at the O-Bahn.

A good list UEX.
Unfortunately there is already a large gap between SA and the rest of Australia in the capabilities of our rail infrastructure. With no current plans to address it by the State government it will only get worse.

Furyan wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:33 am

A good list UEX.
Unfortunately there is already a large gap between SA and the rest of Australia in the capabilities of our rail infrastructure. With no current plans to address it by the State government it will only get worse.

The Government has spent billions. Resleepering of virtually the whole system. Two major underpasses, electrification of the two major lines, extensions to Seaford and FU. Given the relatively small number of passengers, heavy rail has had a very good deal. That money would have built a complete tram network serving many more people.

Now, that doesn't mean that all those things aren't worth doing in the longer term. They might be. However, before Government could remotely justify the costs, Adelaide Metro needs to improve what it has to show that more spending is worthwhile. At the moment, for all those billions spent, how much faster or more comfortable are the journeys? Frankly, not much.

So. If we really want the Government to even look at that list, Adelaide Metro needs to really boost timetables. Having spent billions already, with little to show from the perspective of a passenger, how would we convince governments to spend billions more? Put another way, if we had to spend $5bn on that list, why do that when it would buy a complete tram system? Plus a new hospital, with enough left over to build a stadium. All of which has more votes. Plus serves many more people.

I was having another glance at the spacing between stations on the GC line. I was thinking whether or not it may be practical to have North Adelaide and Bowden merged into one station, with a small detour to get it closer to Park Tce. The line would hypothetically curve to the right, with a merged station for each corridor.

Steering clear of the ARTC SG line could be done with adequate $. But this rearrangement would reduce the gap between stations, and provide a 3-4 minute trip, whilst still enabling folks to make the tram to avoid the ticket barriers at ARS.

It is technically 4-5 years too late to fathom such. But it still would've been an improvement over having a station which is only served a couple of times per day in the middle of nowhere.

MT269 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:50 pm

I was having another glance at the spacing between stations on the GC line. I was thinking whether or not it may be practical to have North Adelaide and Bowden merged into one station, with a small detour to get it closer to Park Tce. The line would hypothetically curve to the right, with a merged station for each corridor.

Steering clear of the ARTC SG line could be done with adequate $. But this rearrangement would reduce the gap between stations, and provide a 3-4 minute trip, whilst still enabling folks to make the tram to avoid the ticket barriers at ARS.

It is technically 4-5 years too late to fathom such. But it still would've been an improvement over having a station which is only served a couple of times per day in the middle of nowhere.

Realistically, I don't think North Adelaide needs to remain as a station - It's very poorly located with little catchment within a reasonable radius, and the vast majority of nearby population already served by Bowden.

UEX wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:46 pm

Realistically, I don't think North Adelaide needs to remain as a station - It's very poorly located with little catchment within a reasonable radius, and the vast majority of nearby population already served by Bowden.

And once the trams eventually make their way to O'Connell Street there's going to be even less reason to keep the station open.

Other than to service Hindmarsh Stadium and the Entertainment Centre. Closing North Adelaide will mean anyone using the Gawler Line to get to either of these fairly significant destinations will need to travel all the way to ARS and then either catch a train or a OH/Grange train. Not exactly a user-friendly experience and again prioritises the efficiency of the service for CBD commuters over non-peak and local users.

Llessur2002 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:14 pm

Other than to service Hindmarsh Stadium and the Entertainment Centre. Closing North Adelaide will mean anyone using the Gawler Line to get to either of these fairly significant destinations will need to travel all the way to ARS and then either catch a train or a OH/Grange train. Not exactly a user-friendly experience and again prioritises the efficiency of the service for CBD commuters over non-peak and local users.

That's a good point. The station is heritage listed iirc, so maybe just stop there when events are on at Hindmarsh or Entercentre. Mind you, the HS is a bit of a walk, so some people would prefer ARS and change.

But stopping there during events is feasible.

Other option is to better integrate the station with the surrounding area. Are the changes to the golf courses still on the cards? That would enable a change to the space between the station and North Adelaide and a stronger connection can be made between the two.

Or one could just extend the tramline down Manton Street? Duh.

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:37 am

Or one could just extend the tramline down Manton Street? Duh.

That doesn't remotely address the problem. Passengers from the Gawler line would still need to travel all the way to ARS and then take a 15 minute tram journey back to Hindmarsh.