Sensational-Adelaide.com

After the string of injuries and fatalities on railway crossings these past few weeks it would be insane for the State Government to keep their head in the sand on it

Edit: ah, seems they are https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/ ... /102037476

Many of the old stations had grade separated pedestrian crossings either above or below the railway. Now those are not being built? It seems like a step backwards.

We need a Level Crossing Removal Authority (LXRA) based on the Victorian model ASAP.

Incidentally, I attended a street corner meeting with Malinauskas earlier this week (talking about a heritage building on Gibson St Bowden that has had a demolition application, and Gibson St in general) and he mentioned that he had been pushing hard for a grade separation of the Hawker St level crossing at the same time as Torrens Rd, but never made headway with that (obviously he wasn't premier at the time the project was in planning).

PeFe wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:28 pm

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Without a train station, yes. Yes it will be.

Nathan wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:49 am

Incidentally, I attended a street corner meeting with Malinauskas earlier this week (talking about a heritage building on Gibson St Bowden that has had a demolition application, and Gibson St in general) and he mentioned that he had been pushing hard for a grade separation of the Hawker St level crossing at the same time as Torrens Rd, but never made headway with that (obviously he wasn't premier at the time the project was in planning).

Why did they remove the previous grade separation of Hawker Street?

It was a very old bridge structure that was found to have structural concerns and wasn't fit for purpose anymore. They deemed the traffic volumes too low to warrant building a new rail bridge so a level crossing was built instead.

Not exactly sure when the old bridge was dismantled though. 1970s I think?

RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:50 am

Many of the old stations had grade separated pedestrian crossings either above or below the railway. Now those are not being built? It seems like a step backwards.

Anecdotally, I think this has something to do with concerns about pedestrian underpasses like the ones at Goodwood, Mile End etc being dangerous places where undesirables congregate. Adelaide seems to be unique in Australia in the way pedestrian level crossings are everywhere. I'm not sure why it is seen as an acceptable solution. Often it is completely unnecessary, like where there is an existing pedestrian bridge (eg Alberton) or underpass (Goodwood), but pedestrians are still allowed to cross the tracks by level crossing.

dbl96 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:49 am

RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:50 am

Many of the old stations had grade separated pedestrian crossings either above or below the railway. Now those are not being built? It seems like a step backwards.

Anecdotally, I think this has something to do with concerns about pedestrian underpasses like the ones at Goodwood, Mile End etc being dangerous places where undesirables congregate. Adelaide seems to be unique in Australia in the way pedestrian level crossings are everywhere. I'm not sure why it is seen as an acceptable solution. Often it is completely unnecessary, like where there is an existing pedestrian bridge (eg Alberton) or underpass (Goodwood), but pedestrians are still allowed to cross the tracks by level crossing.

The nearest level crossings at Goodwood are 300m away in each direction. No-one is going to walk from Leader St or Victoria St to walk under the underpass at Goodwood Station.

dbl96 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:49 am

RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:50 am

Many of the old stations had grade separated pedestrian crossings either above or below the railway. Now those are not being built? It seems like a step backwards.

Anecdotally, I think this has something to do with concerns about pedestrian underpasses like the ones at Goodwood, Mile End etc being dangerous places where undesirables congregate. Adelaide seems to be unique in Australia in the way pedestrian level crossings are everywhere. I'm not sure why it is seen as an acceptable solution. Often it is completely unnecessary, like where there is an existing pedestrian bridge (eg Alberton) or underpass (Goodwood), but pedestrians are still allowed to cross the tracks by level crossing.

Sounds like the usual South Australian folklore of Chinese whispers.
More like the real reason is it's cheaper then pedestrian underpasses.

I can see the point of over and underpasses where it's hard to see trains coming, or it's very busy.

However, where it's easy to see oncoming trains and there aren't large numbers of pedestrians, what is the need for under/overpasses? Or maintenance heavy warning systems? There's never enough money to do everything people would like to do, be that cleaner trains, better equipped stations, faster services etc etc.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:02 pm

I can see the point of over and underpasses where it's hard to see trains coming, or it's very busy.

However, where it's easy to see oncoming trains and there aren't large numbers of pedestrians, what is the need for under/overpasses? Or maintenance heavy warning systems? There's never enough money to do everything people would like to do, be that cleaner trains, better equipped stations, faster services etc etc.

I think there's a point in having them on the Gawler line up to Salisbury Station. I have missed trains because I approached from the western side and got blocked by a mile long freight train.

I guess the same need also applies to the Belair line.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:02 pm

I can see the point of over and underpasses where it's hard to see trains coming, or it's very busy.

However, where it's easy to see oncoming trains and there aren't large numbers of pedestrians, what is the need for under/overpasses? Or maintenance heavy warning systems? There's never enough money to do everything people would like to do, be that cleaner trains, better equipped stations, faster services etc etc.

The point imho, why do we still have train crossings in a metropolitan area particularly on a train line that runs the majority of the length of the Adelaide metropolitan area carrying freight trains every day and night? Its the year 2023. Rosetta & Chief Streets have had grade separation for how long? Yet we've only just done it for Torrens Road..and no plan in sight for the rest of the train corridors in the metro..sad.

We know the population is going to grow, we know congestion on roads will increase.

Rather then waiting for a few decades to pass, work should be undertaken now, unlike the MATS plan which was scrapped, and we're now scrambling to do some of that work that would have happened decades ago. The disruptions in the years to come will be far greater then they will be from the work being done now.
The opportunity can also be taken to upgrade all stations, bringing the whole train network into the 21st century.

rev wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:46 pm

dbl96 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:49 am

RetroGamer87 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:50 am

Many of the old stations had grade separated pedestrian crossings either above or below the railway. Now those are not being built? It seems like a step backwards.

Anecdotally, I think this has something to do with concerns about pedestrian underpasses like the ones at Goodwood, Mile End etc being dangerous places where undesirables congregate. Adelaide seems to be unique in Australia in the way pedestrian level crossings are everywhere. I'm not sure why it is seen as an acceptable solution. Often it is completely unnecessary, like where there is an existing pedestrian bridge (eg Alberton) or underpass (Goodwood), but pedestrians are still allowed to cross the tracks by level crossing.

Sounds like the usual South Australian folklore of Chinese whispers.
More like the real reason is it's cheaper then pedestrian underpasses.

No he's right, the reason they don't build underpasses anymore is for public safety, direct from my Civ Eng consultant friend - they can't guarantee the coverage or integrity of CCTV, and those tunnels are out of sight from the road and any potential witnesses or help. This is with particular respect to assault and sexual assault, not plain average delinquency.

The reason they don't build more overpasses, now that's money.

Never heard of sexual assaults, or any assault, happening on the pedestrian side of things along Rosetta st?
How many assaults have happened along the sunken rail station at Bowden?

Interesting they take that into consideration and don't build them anymore, yet our parklands which are known for sexual assaults nobody bothers to fix them up and install proper lighting let alone cctv.

rev wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:19 am

Never heard of sexual assaults, or any assault, happening on the pedestrian side of things along Rosetta st?

There has been an assault (I think of a sexual nature, I can't remember) in this underpass in the last couple of years. Before Labor got in we have received various letters from Peter Malinauskus saying he was lobbying for CCTV because of this, and have had a letter in the last few weeks saying this has now been budgeted for.

I'm an adult male and I don't really like using underpasses after dark to be honest. The original one at Bowden was pretty grim and not a great place to be. The one at Rosetta Street is so-so and the one at Croydon is quite often dark because people spray thick tags on the lighting. Overpasses are pretty crap too as they just turn a 20m walk into a 100m walk with endlessly winding ramps.

I think regular pedestrian crossings are vital to ensure that neighbourhoods remain easily traversable on foot and don't require a detour of 2km in either direction just to visit neighbours or a business 200m away. Kilometer for kilometer, is crossing a railway at surface level any more dangerous than crossing a main arterial road? Compared to road traffic trains follow an incredibly predictable path so there should be no practical barrier to people using the crossings safely.

Are school kids statistically more likely to play chicken in front of an approaching train than they would an approaching truck? Do we definitely have a rail-specific problem here that needs solving?