[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[Wayno]

A couple of notes from skimming through the 40 page PDF.

• * Page 18 - i like the planned night time feature and arbour lighting. Certainly gives the square an intimate feel and adds additional layers of visual texture
  * Page 26 - unsure how the planned bike hub (400 spaces) will work, need more details
  * Would also like to see more details on roads (surfaces, crossings, etc) especially near the Markets & Hilton hotel. i'm a tad concerned that VSQ may remain as an island in a sea of traffic. Benefit of the doubt granted.

[crawf]

After looking at the renders I am starting to like it.

With the Adelaide CBD now starting to spread further south with projects like 400KWS, Edge, Wave and the Yorke Campus development etc, I like the plan for a much better faster connection for pedestrians wanting to travel from north to south. Currently you have to go through 5 sets of traffic lights to cross Victoria Square!

Another thing I like is the tourist information centre, if designed right it could become a tourist attraction itself.

Also not one of the squares have proper playground equipment yet they want to attract families- do they expect the kids to play in the wetlands?

No thanks, playgrounds belong in the parklands not in the centre of the state capital.

[flavze]

Whilst not a perfect plan i hope they get stuck in and build it asap.
I would love to see Grote/Wakefield roads be turned into an underpass that can be done at a later stage after the initial idea is done and dusted and more funds become available down the track.

Would have been nice if it was being finished now as it would be a great place for people to watch the World Cup games together in a month or so.

[Wayno]

first of all get off you're high horse.
and then tell me what is special about these plans? what stands out? on any given day, why would a tourist, or indeed a local, want to come here?

Mants, strongly recommend you read the detailed doc before posting again. There will be innovative art & architecture as you call for, but it won't be done in a 'build it upfront and we're done with VSQ' arrangement. Instead such things will be done as follows:

Page 28: The Arts Strategy for Victoria Square / Tarndanyangga is likened to a menu in that it is carefully coordinated, caters for different stages or typologies and can allow for changes through the seasons and over time. A high level of engagement by artists, designers and other collaborators and the viewers or audience, like the patrons of a restaurant, is most important for its continuing success.

The Arts Strategy reinforces the overall principles of the design of the Square by encouraging artworks that are contemporary while reinforcing and valuing history, being environmentally sensitive in context and content, socially aware and inclusive but also at times challenging and importantly recognizing and valuing the traditional Kaurna owners and their ongoing living culture.

As for VSQ not being connected - sorry but don't agree. It's immediately adjacent to Gouger St Cafe District, The Markets and The Hilton (which would be a prime candidate for refurb/expansion once VSQ is done). Also we should reasonably expect private enterprise to jump on the bandwagon and build more residential towers nearby in the future. More connections will happen...

[Prince George]

Also not one of the squares have proper playground equipment yet they want to attract families- do they expect the kids to play in the wetlands?

No thanks, playgrounds belong in the parklands not in the centre of the state capital.

And, in any case, kids are capable of playing in places that are just plain interesting without needing swings and see-saws. I think that this is a mistake that you see in many parks - traditional playgrounds are great for the under 10s, but lose their appeal after that. We need more places that can engage the whole spectrum of ages, from toddlers to retirees and everyone in between.

[crawf]

As for VSQ not being connected - sorry but don't agree. It's immediately adjacent to Gouger St Cafe District, The Markets and The Hilton (which would be a prime candidate for refurb/expansion once VSQ is done). Also we should reasonably expect private enterprise to jump on the bandwagon and build more residential towers nearby in the future. More connections will happen...

There was talk of a major refurb for the Central Markets and $40m upgrade for the Hilton a while back, however I think the GFC killed both these projects.

[Mants]

Mants, strongly recommend you read the detailed doc before posting again. There will be innovative art & architecture as you call for, but it won't be done in a 'build it upfront and we're done with VSQ' arrangement. Instead such things will be done as follows:

Page 28: The Arts Strategy for Victoria Square / Tarndanyangga is likened to a menu in that it is carefully coordinated, caters for different stages or typologies and can allow for changes through the seasons and over time. A high level of engagement by artists, designers and other collaborators and the viewers or audience, like the patrons of a restaurant, is most important for its continuing success.

The Arts Strategy reinforces the overall principles of the design of the Square by encouraging artworks that are contemporary while reinforcing and valuing history, being environmentally sensitive in context and content, socially aware and inclusive but also at times challenging and importantly recognizing and valuing the traditional Kaurna owners and their ongoing living culture.

As for VSQ not being connected - sorry but don't agree. It's immediately adjacent to Gouger St Cafe District, The Markets and The Hilton (which would be a prime candidate for refurb/expansion once VSQ is done). Also we should reasonably expect private enterprise to jump on the bandwagon and build more residential towers nearby in the future. More connections will happen...

yes i have read over the pdf but i still feel like this is not the best solution for the square.
the issue i was trying to raise with connectivity, is associated with the fact that the square will still be surrounded by and spilt in two by multiple lanes of traffic. pedestrians will still have to contend with traffic noise, pollution from exhaust and a public space cut in two. it's another example of the car rules.

as for the arts strategy, i look forward to new and innovative artwork in the square. but it is all a bit ambiguous... does the $100m pricetag include commissioning for works by local artists?

[Nort]

I like the plan overall. I'm a little curious about details that have been missed out of the video such as showing how the shared zone will work, in the video even though it is apparently in pedestrian mode there doesn't seem to be much in the way of traffic lights shown that will be needed most of the time.

It's in general a resounding thumbs up from me. The shared use area will both allow the square to act as a large pedestrian area for events, which satisfying nearby businesses during the week. There are things I would have wanted to see differently such as Grote/Wakefield street sunk, but that is still possible down the line and could be an inevitability if Victoria Square becomes a major center for events. I would have also liked to see the road in between the Hilton and Victoria Square closed to thoroughfare traffic entirely and being a shared traffic/pedestrian area with only taxis to the Hilton and other supply vehicles being allowed admittance.

[Clr Yarwood]

I could be here for days answering questions and taking feedback and have lots going on so will offer these comments.

• Please make a submission – comments here are great, but submissions feed into the process;

• Undergrounding is not feasible – with the pipes & wires there we are talking an instant doubling and we simply to not have that $ when there is so many other parts of the city in need;

• Being the heart of the city, roads are needed for public transport and vehicle movement – its MUCH less road space than present – please see the positive side!

• This is what you get for $100 million (finished with art) – if you want more it costs more.

• The pergola IS world class and iconic – it’s huge and when lit up will be awesome

• Re: activating the space – given markets, festivals, and events people WILL have a reason to come here – also the Central Market is the most visited building in Adelaide. What council does have is a budget to fund activities going forward.

Finally – keep in mind any critical comments challenge the expertise of the internationally award winning architects/landscape architects and elite expert design panel overseeing them. That’s a team of highly qualified, experienced and world renowned people that have invested their life in the field. Hence if you are going to bag the design I ask you to first read all the material in detail. What we need is a result; having visited public squares in over 35 international cities in the last 10 years I think this is excellent.

[crawf]

After looking at the PDF, I believe this is the best plan ever proposed for Victoria Square. Its a unique design and not some rip off from another city

It would be great to sit there and watch a concert with the city skyline as a backdrop. The only issue I really have is the east-west road connection, it should be replaced with a underpass though that could be done in the future.

The giant arbours are brilliant btw

From the PDF


Legend
1. Three Rivers Fountain
2. Stage
3. Event Lawn
4. Cafe/kiosk
5. Big Screen
6. Tram stop
7. Cafe
8. Mosaic Garden
9. Wetland/Bioretention Garden
10. Bicycle hub
11. Arbour
12. Tourist Information Centre
13. Storage/Amenities Hub
14. Kaurna Centre of Culture & Performance Space
15. Avenue Planting
16. Perimeter Garden
17. Flagpoles
18. Statues

[Nort]

Is the plan for the Three Rivers Fountain to be moved (not sure if that would even be possible without destroying it) or just demolished?

[ricecrackers]

I'm still finding it a little difficult to visualize with the renders provided so far

i'm concerned as to where the KW traffic will end up as the new roads appear to be a lot narrower and obscured by the trees

I think in order to get people to use this square, it needs to be accessible and not an island surrounded by traffic. i'm not sure this design achieves that and I doubt its possible unless some part of the road is either closed off completely or goes underground.

I think the area in front of the Hilton/Market area should be an area where pedestrians can enter the square without having to cross a road. that will get people into and using the area.

[Nort]

I'm still finding it a little difficult to visualize with the renders provided so far

i'm concerned as to where the KW traffic will end up as the new roads appear to be a lot narrower and obscured by the trees

I think in order to get people to use this square, it needs to be accessible and not an island surrounded by traffic. i'm not sure this design achieves that and I doubt its possible unless some part of the road is either closed off completely or goes underground.

I think the area in front of the Hilton/Market area should be an area where pedestrians can enter the square without having to cross a road. that will get people into and using the area.

Unless you want to turn the entire CBD into a vehicle free zone it then the majority of people visiting the square will have to cross a road to get there.

Having to cross a road to get to the square isn't a problem if the space itself is an appealing destination.

People go around Victoria Square at the moment because there is no reason to go into it. On the other hand go look at Federation square in Melbourne, the majority of people access the square by crossing a road from the tram stop or train station.

[Mark]

I think the design submitted looks great and i like the idea of the pergola/canopy stretching the length of the square on either side.. I do think that the square needs a feature in the centre with some height to make the square more visible from either end of King William St and Grote St/Wakefield St. Maybe something similar to the Perth Bell Tower on the Swan River. The structure could also be used for the tourist centre or cafes or could even be used for a gallery similar to certain areas of Federation Square in Melbourne. I think it would add to the current design and could be integrated with the canopy on either side.

[Nathan]

I'm still finding it a little difficult to visualize with the renders provided so far

i'm concerned as to where the KW traffic will end up as the new roads appear to be a lot narrower and obscured by the trees

I think in order to get people to use this square, it needs to be accessible and not an island surrounded by traffic. i'm not sure this design achieves that and I doubt its possible unless some part of the road is either closed off completely or goes underground.

I think the area in front of the Hilton/Market area should be an area where pedestrians can enter the square without having to cross a road. that will get people into and using the area.

Unless you want to turn the entire CBD into a vehicle free zone it then the majority of people visiting the square will have to cross a road to get there.

Having to cross a road to get to the square isn't a problem if the space itself is an appealing destination.

People go around Victoria Square at the moment because there is no reason to go into it. On the other hand go look at Federation square in Melbourne, the majority of people access the square by crossing a road from the tram stop or train station.

I don't think crossing a road is much of an issue either. The big problem currently is that you have to cross two roads to get into the square when coming from the north or south. One road is fine.