Sensational-Adelaide.com

We don't need to extend train lines in Adelaide......we have kilometre upon kilometre of train lines with no development next to them. Train stations with the nearest houses 500 metres away, train stations with houses kilometres away....

I would not extend the train line beyond Gawler......service any new suburbia with a decent bus service and turn Gawler train station into a proper interchange.

And why are we building suburbia so far away? The suburbs of northern Melbourne stop 22,23 kms north of the CBD but Adelaide seems to want to challenge Perth for the title of "Longest lowest density suburban sprawl in the world".

If they reconnected the Gawler Line to the Port Flat line at Dry Creek, they should at least trial passengers trains between Gawler and Osborne, a temporary platform at Wingfield (in vicinity of Hanson Road, Gillman and Osborne

It would be difficult to justify reinstating the Dry Creek to Osborne rail service given the lack of remaining rail corridors that have not been dismantled. The Rosewater Loop is disused and currently being ripped up, and at Dry Creek the line would have to cross the existing ARTC line to reach the suburban rail lines. The remaining freight line to Outer Harbor and the Outer Harbor passenger line no longer have any connecting active rail corridors either.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:44 pm

We don't need to extend train lines in Adelaide......we have kilometre upon kilometre of train lines with no development next to them. Train stations with the nearest houses 500 metres away, train stations with houses kilometres away....

I would not extend the train line beyond Gawler......service any new suburbia with a decent bus service and turn Gawler train station into a proper interchange.

And why are we building suburbia so far away? The suburbs of northern Melbourne stop 22,23 kms north of the CBD but Adelaide seems to want to challenge Perth for the title of "Longest lowest density suburban sprawl in the world".

Mickelham is are 40ish km away from the cbd. What decade are you getting this 22km figure from?
South you have Pakenham 56km from the CBD, Frankston 41km.
Gawler and Aldinga are about 40km from the CBD.

Adelaide has nowhere else to expand but north and south. There's geographical features commonly known as the Adelaide Hills to the east and the St Vincent Gulf to the west.

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:00 pm

Mickelham is are 40ish km away from the cbd. What decade are you getting this 22km figure from?
South you have Pakenham 56km from the CBD, Frankston 41km.
Gawler and Aldinga are about 40km from the CBD.

Epping 22 kms
https://www.distancesfrom.com/au/how-fa ... 07297.aspx

Adelaide has nowhere else to expand but north and south.

Up...and infill

AG wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:23 pm

It would be difficult to justify reinstating the Dry Creek to Osborne rail service given the lack of remaining rail corridors that have not been dismantled. The Rosewater Loop is disused and currently being ripped up, and at Dry Creek the line would have to cross the existing ARTC line to reach the suburban rail lines. The remaining freight line to Outer Harbor and the Outer Harbor passenger line no longer have any connecting active rail corridors either.

There are large and growing carparks at Osborne near ASC and BAE. I assume most of the cars that fill them come from outside of Lefevre Peninsula. Adelaide's hub and spoke public transport means that Hallett Cove and Elizabeth are the same time train ride from Osborne. People who work there are more likely to be in the northern suburbs.

If the corridors are wide enough, the ARTC crossings need not be at grade. It's been fixed at Goodwood and Torrens Junctions.

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:00 pm

PeFe wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:44 pm

The suburbs of northern Melbourne stop 22,23 kms north of the CBD but Adelaide seems to want to challenge Perth for the title of "Longest lowest density suburban sprawl in the world".

Mickelham is are 40ish km away from the cbd. What decade are you getting this 22km figure from?
South you have Pakenham 56km from the CBD, Frankston 41km.
Gawler and Aldinga are about 40km from the CBD.

Adelaide has nowhere else to expand but north and south. There's geographical features commonly known as the Adelaide Hills to the east and the St Vincent Gulf to the west.

In Melbourne the SE suburban EMU rail ends at Frankston, but then loco-hauled rail cars from Frankston continue to Stony Point, a further 30km. The south eastern suburbs actually stretch to Porsea, 110km from Melbourne.

If not for having to allow for ships and submarines in and out of Port Adelaide, it would be really easy to get a train from Outer Harbor to Two Wells, via Buckland Park, Riverlea Park and Port Gawler. It could use a lot of the existing heritage tram right of way down to the St Kilda. Something I've thought about anytime I've been at St Kilda playground with my kids, realising how close the peninsula is to that part of town.

PeFe wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:23 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:00 pm

Mickelham is are 40ish km away from the cbd. What decade are you getting this 22km figure from?
South you have Pakenham 56km from the CBD, Frankston 41km.
Gawler and Aldinga are about 40km from the CBD.

Epping 22 kms
https://www.distancesfrom.com/au/how-fa ... 07297.aspx

Adelaide has nowhere else to expand but north and south.

Up...and infill

The northern most suburbs of Melbourne are places like Mickleham and Donnybrook, not Epping.


Up and infill? Where are we going to infill?
Can you pinpoint on a map where you can house a further 300,000~ people in Adelaide with infill? without carving up a good chunk of Adelaide's existing privately owned suburban homes and blocks to accommodate.


Most people don't want to live in an apartment building. This isn't my opinion, it's an observable fact. There's far more housing developments happening, that sell out quickly, then there is apartment towers going up and selling out.

It could be cheaper to build a new O'bahn from the 333 terminus to Port Adelaide with a 5 minute frequency than what it would to build a crossing over the ocean from Port to St Kilda to serve er, ants, flies, and Coke cans?

In my opinion, Adelaide was not positioned in a location which is friendly towards rail transport. If it was 100 kms north, a complex rail network would be more viable. Nobody wants rail in the east. And I doubt it will ever come.

Melbourne has spent billions of dollars removing level crossings, extending and duplicating railway tracks, Commuters are prepared to use Vline trains in addition to Pt trains. For example Donny Brook and Wallan in the north east (beyond Craigieburn), Also the line from Ardeer to Melton has been duplicated and upgraded. There are new stations on the new inland route to Geelong at Tarneit and Wyndom Vale. if you really want to live far out there is new duplication and stations on the line to Waurm Ponds (beyond Geelong). There is also a new station and a huge depot at Packenham East. (This excludes the new under ground line from South Yarra in the south east to south Kensington in the north west with 6 new stations under the CBD).

see :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xhH-D0 ... =Driver667.

MT269 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:03 am

It could be cheaper to build a new O'bahn from the 333 terminus to Port Adelaide with a 5 minute frequency than what it would to build a crossing over the ocean from Port to St Kilda to serve er, ants, flies, and Coke cans?

In my opinion, Adelaide was not positioned in a location which is friendly towards rail transport. If it was 100 kms north, a complex rail network would be more viable. Nobody wants rail in the east. And I doubt it will ever come.

The suggestion wasn't for St Kilda as a terminus. It was for an alternative route to service the expansion of residential development in that area and as far as Two Wells. St K was just on the way as a route indicator.

For heavy rail fans, it is something that would cement the Outer Harbor line as heavy rail. As it stands, light rail such as in Canberra, could do it better, putting heavy rail at risk. If, however, there was a line going further AND faster to Two Wells, say, then it would assure heavy rail in that corridor. At the moment, it's very marginal compared with light rail.

MT269 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:03 am

It could be cheaper to build a new O'bahn from the 333 terminus to Port Adelaide with a 5 minute frequency than what it would to build a crossing over the ocean from Port to St Kilda to serve er, ants, flies, and Coke cans?

In my opinion, Adelaide was not positioned in a location which is friendly towards rail transport. If it was 100 kms north, a complex rail network would be more viable. Nobody wants rail in the east. And I doubt it will ever come.

guided buses aren't sexy but the reality is they're probably appropriate for a city of Adelaide's size

There's already a railway line/corridor through Two Wells. It's only single track and standard gauge, owned/operated by ARTC. I wonder if ARTC could be negotiated with for the SA government to duplicate the track in exchange for access rights. Sidings near major stations could enable the competing timetable requirements of faster railcars and slower freight trains.

Bridges between Osborne and St Kilda look interesting, but not practical while we only have that one port area on the eastern side of Gulf St Vincent. There aren't really many alternative sites for a major deep-water port.

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:51 pm

Nort wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:26 am

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:03 am

It puzzles me that the focus is to (re-)extend rail to Concordia because the government has "released for housing" some land there. There are several hundred hectares of land on the northern end of the current suburbs (south of Gawler) that were released for housing by the Rann government and still grow crops each year.

There are large housing estates being developed right now between Gawler and Roseworthy which also abut a former railway line, yet the call is to extend the service to Concordia, not to Roseworthy.

I believe the scale of Concordia dwarfs that of the Roseworthy developments. And while the train should be extended to Roseworthy, the fact the line is already there means a corridor is already reserved. With Concordia putting in a train line later would be a nightmare.

I have not seen a map of exactly which land is "released" in Concordia. The former Kalbeeba stop/station on the Barossa Line is not far from Concordia.