Ian Smith: It's a shame Adelaide is crumbling.

[Will]

[

thats just rubbish, and I have license to say that thanks to your classless response

the place lacks wealth, it lacks arable land and it lacks sufficient water. its not a major seaport either, again due to its location it never will be.

you can regard these as problems or you can regard them as facts of life and live with them. you seem to be of a school of thought that people are holding back the city. holding back from what precisely?
from experiencing the same growth as Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne? thats just stupid to be even comparing with those places.

as it is the plight of the town of Adelaide is simply reflecting its natural environment and location. its size, wealth and politics follow suit. deal with it and accept it for what it is else you'll be doing this for the rest of your life

Your attitude is like someone from Elizäbeth saying "I was born and grew up in a low socio-economic area, and so I may as well give up and not try"

you've got some issues mate. good luck with that.

I've always achieved, innovated and succeeded in my work life but I take a long view and bigger picture outlook on matters such as whats described in this thread.

you could spend your life doing this and maybe you might get a tree removed or a building or two approved but it wont change the bigger picture.
get out and about a bit and you'll realize there is much more to life than trying to change the spots on your home town.

Well, if loving my hometown and having a positive outlook for its future means I have issues, then yes I have issues.

I actually recommend you travel. See the world, see how lucky and well off we trully are.

And its funny you said in the last page: ""if they have any ambition they'll leave, if they're not risk takers they'll stay" and then say "I've always achieved, innovated and succeeded in my work life". So which one is it?

[ricecrackers]

Your attitude is like someone from Elizäbeth saying "I was born and grew up in a low socio-economic area, and so I may as well give up and not try"

you've got some issues mate. good luck with that.

I've always achieved, innovated and succeeded in my work life but I take a long view and bigger picture outlook on matters such as whats described in this thread.

you could spend your life doing this and maybe you might get a tree removed or a building or two approved but it wont change the bigger picture.
get out and about a bit and you'll realize there is much more to life than trying to change the spots on your home town.

Well, if loving my hometown and having a positive outlook for its future means I have issues, then yes I have issues.

I actually recommend you travel. See the world, see how lucky and well off we trully are.

And its funny you said in the last page: ""if they have any ambition they'll leave, if they're not risk takers they'll stay" and then say "I've always achieved, innovated and succeeded in my work life". So which one is it?

you have no idea what i've done in my life, but you seem to be quite an aggressive and prickly character
not someone i'd be volunteering personal information to. you can moderate that if you wish.

[Will]

you have a habit of bringing out the best in me.

[monotonehell]

Will wins the argument by default!
DEFAULT! DEFAULT! DEFAULT!



There's a fine line to walk between being a realist and becoming a cynic. I've noticed myself drop into cynicism sometimes, but you can be a realist and have a positive outlook -- the two aren't mutually exclusive. I believe that things are happening in Adelaide, we are really moving forward for the first time since the late '80s. But I also realise what projects haven't a snowball's proverbial for their various reasons.

I find that people who truly understand the World, tend to be moderates in their outlook. I think it's because they realise that nothing's black and white. So you can't really have a concrete opinion on a topic unless you hold all other things constant (ceteris paribus). But that's close to a strawman argument... so moderates are correct.

Meanwhile, Adelaide isn't especially crumbling, we have some challenges, that's true. People need to both get over their own inhibiting attitudes about their own state, and be realistic (but not cynical). Some people here (and in the eastern states) don't realise what reputation we have. Just recently I watched Steven Fry's talk at the Sydney Opera House on ABC. At one point he was speaking about how wonderful Australia is, and mentioned the Adelaide Festival as being one of the three World's greatest. Some of the Audience thought he was joking and you could see his slight confusion over why that had got a laugh.

I've travelled quite extensively, and as I said in a recent thread; what happens here and people complain about, happens everywhere else.

We aren't special, if you take Ian Smith's measures, everywhere is crumbling.

[AtD]

For what it's worth, Adelaide's chugging along quite nicely for a small western city. Our population growth, the economy and unemployment would be the envy of many similarly sized cities in the US or Europe right now.

[iTouch]

First of all I'm taking this quote out of context if thats ok with you Will

I have issues

Second of all, totally agree with Atd. We're a very well off city compared to europe and America. Every city has their problems.
Brisbane with their decline in civil morality
Perth with their feeling of exclusion from the rest of the country.
Adelaide with our feeling of not moving forward.
Melbourne with their racism.
Sydney with their infrastructure.
Hobart with their NIMBYism (let's face it. Their NIMBY's make ours look like development contractors)

The fact that Adelaide's dealing with its problem proves we're changing for the better.

[Prince George]

Wow, it seems that some people could do with looking back over the Only in Adelaide? thread. Adelaide has challenges, absolutely no question about that, but people need to be realistic about which ones are Adelaide specific, which ones are more universal, and which ones are actually fictions that we're making up about ourselves (or, worse, that other people are making up and we believe them).

[Wayno]

A BIG part of our challenge is a lack of $$$ and our need to keep an AAA credit rating. We'd be miles ahead if the State Bank collapse didn't occur. My personal opinion is too many SA residents aged 50+ (as of today) impacted by that disaster continue to cultivate the chips on their collective shoulders - they are otherwise intelligent people who aren't willing (or able) to identify or act on modern day opportunities. Sounds dramatic i know.

That's why Rann & Foley are keen for the ODX expansion to get underway. It will provide significant additional dollars (via company tax, royalties, income tax, etc) but more importantly it will allow the govt to borrow much more without impacting our rating. Imagine the ACC saying "we need $70m to refurb VSQ and an additional $10m per year to make the Parklands world class" and Rann says "yep - sure no problems, let's do that AND Adelaide Oval AND the Riverbank Precinct". Not far away if all goes to plan...

Ricecrackers is kinda correct when he says:

get out and about a bit and you'll realize there is much more to life than trying to change the spots on your home town.

There's no practice run to life - get out and live it today.

But i don't agree with this:

you could spend your life doing this and maybe you might get a tree removed or a building or two approved but it wont change the bigger picture.

Sorry ricecrackers, must be difficult balancing all those chips.

[Howie]

Personally I think Adelaide has been making excellent progress lately, we're laying the foundations for a bigger and better city for our children. It's great that councils are now opening up to the idea of better use of land, and thinking about the problem as a whole - rather than just building skyscrapers, we're planning for better transport and better facilities as well and more sustainability. When I was in sydney over the weekend, I didn't see a single solar panel on any commercial building - which is a shame really when you consider how many we have in Adelaide.

I think the community is ready to support a bigger Adelaide, so hopefully if the councils agree to adopt the framework proposed in this Property Council of Australia document we'll become the city Adelaide so rightly deserves to be.

[stumpjumper]

Smith's a prat, and Bespoke Approach isn';t too proud to take money from anyone who slips it under their (steel-lined) door.

He's wrong about Adelaide.

Look at the quality of our lives and the price we pay:

Look at the sky next time you're in Europe. It's brown and it smells of smoke and avgas.

Consider the quality and price of the fresh fruit, vegetables, seafood, meat and dairy that we eat. Compare that with a miserable British chop for X quid.

Look at our wine! And beer...

Try travelling a few kms across the built-up area in many of the cities Smith thinks we should try to emulate - it'll take you half a day to travel 10kms, and while you're travelling, check out the shabby infrastructure. Our city is swept clean nightly!

Lock up your bike with only one lock in many cities, and see how much of it is left on your return.

Think about where you live, in relation to the facilities of the city. Could you afford you live that close in London? Sydney? Melbourne?

try ringing on of our MPs at Parliament House. There's a fair chance they'll answer the phone in person, and what's more they'll probably be prepared to talk to you. Try that in most places.

We've got a uranium mine the size of a small European country, we'll never go broke selling barley to make beer, and we haven't even tried yet to sell ourselves to the world as a clean and green farm.

People don't plant bombs in the streets here, and a locked screen door is enough to feel safe in bed on a hot night.

If you do get sick of our modest charms, in 20 minutes even by public transport, you can be on a fabulous clean beach or under a tree in the Hills.

Every place has its attractions, and we are a long way from anywhere, but all in all, most of us can expect to enjoy a good quality life if we stay here.

If we don't like it, most of us are free to go, as Smith is.

He's on the mark about the amalgamation of councils. We're heading that way with the present council alliances.

He's right about Senator Wong too, compared with former SA federal MPs of both sides. Wong seems to have forgotten the folks back home as she pursues her brilliant, if robotic, career.

[ricecrackers]

A BIG part of our challenge is a lack of $$$ and our need to keep an AAA credit rating. We'd be miles ahead if the State Bank collapse didn't occur. My personal opinion is too many SA residents aged 50+ (as of today) impacted by that disaster continue to cultivate the chips on their collective shoulders - they are otherwise intelligent people who aren't willing (or able) to identify or act on modern day opportunities. Sounds dramatic i know.

That's why Rann & Foley are keen for the ODX expansion to get underway. It will provide significant additional dollars (via company tax, royalties, income tax, etc) but more importantly it will allow the govt to borrow much more without impacting our rating. Imagine the ACC saying "we need $70m to refurb VSQ and an additional $10m per year to make the Parklands world class" and Rann says "yep - sure no problems, let's do that AND Adelaide Oval AND the Riverbank Precinct". Not far away if all goes to plan...

Ricecrackers is kinda correct when he says:

get out and about a bit and you'll realize there is much more to life than trying to change the spots on your home town.

There's no practice run to life - get out and live it today.

But i don't agree with this:

you could spend your life doing this and maybe you might get a tree removed or a building or two approved but it wont change the bigger picture.

Sorry ricecrackers, must be difficult balancing all those chips.

i have no chips on my shoulders
there seems to be a gross misunderstanding of my position...which is, i'm fine with how things are.
i dont expect the place to change much, as it never has in a very long time...that doesnt mean i'm against it
... but those who wish to hang around in Adelaide expecting it to change to make their life better than it currently is are wasting their time.

i thought i'd made this quite clear, but it seems there some group thinkers on this forum who are looking for a villain to rail against. such an attitude by the local dueling banjo players will discourage a good many people with valuable opinions from continuing discussions at this domain. I am not one, but i've no doubt there are some...in fact i know this to be the case

[Omicron]

Smith's a prat, and Bespoke Approach isn';t too proud to take money from anyone who slips it under their (steel-lined) door.

He's wrong about Adelaide.

Look at the quality of our lives and the price we pay:

Look at the sky next time you're in Europe. It's brown and it smells of smoke and avgas.

Consider the quality and price of the fresh fruit, vegetables, seafood, meat and dairy that we eat. Compare that with a miserable British chop for X quid.

Look at our wine! And beer...

Try travelling a few kms across the built-up area in many of the cities Smith thinks we should try to emulate - it'll take you half a day to travel 10kms, and while you're travelling, check out the shabby infrastructure. Our city is swept clean nightly!

Lock up your bike with only one lock in many cities, and see how much of it is left on your return.

Think about where you live, in relation to the facilities of the city. Could you afford you live that close in London? Sydney? Melbourne?

try ringing on of our MPs at Parliament House. There's a fair chance they'll answer the phone in person, and what's more they'll probably be prepared to talk to you. Try that in most places.

We've got a uranium mine the size of a small European country, we'll never go broke selling barley to make beer, and we haven't even tried yet to sell ourselves to the world as a clean and green farm.

People don't plant bombs in the streets here, and a locked screen door is enough to feel safe in bed on a hot night.

If you do get sick of our modest charms, in 20 minutes even by public transport, you can be on a fabulous clean beach or under a tree in the Hills.

Every place has its attractions, and we are a long way from anywhere, but all in all, most of us can expect to enjoy a good quality life if we stay here.

If we don't like it, most of us are free to go, as Smith is.

He's on the mark about the amalgamation of councils. We're heading that way with the present council alliances.

He's right about Senator Wong too, compared with former SA federal MPs of both sides. Wong seems to have forgotten the folks back home as she pursues her brilliant, if robotic, career.

+1

[SRW]

i have no chips on my shoulders
there seems to be a gross misunderstanding of my position...which is, i'm fine with how things are.
i dont expect the place to change much, as it never has in a very long time...that doesnt mean i'm against it
... but those who wish to hang around in Adelaide expecting it to change to make their life better than it currently is are wasting their time.

i thought i'd made this quite clear, but it seems there some group thinkers on this forum who are looking for a villain to rail against. such an attitude by the local dueling banjo players will discourage a good many people with valuable opinions from continuing discussions at this domain. I am not one, but i've no doubt there are some...in fact i know this to be the case

There's a bit of contradiction in what you're saying though, don't you think? You criticise group think on the one hand, but advise it on the other. For aren't you effectively saying to those who would challenge the status quo to give up and adopt the prevailing, defeatist attitude?

That said, I agree that civility's important on this forum, but that it's been lacking in this particular thread. Assume good faith, folks.

[ricecrackers]

i have no chips on my shoulders
there seems to be a gross misunderstanding of my position...which is, i'm fine with how things are.
i dont expect the place to change much, as it never has in a very long time...that doesnt mean i'm against it
... but those who wish to hang around in Adelaide expecting it to change to make their life better than it currently is are wasting their time.

i thought i'd made this quite clear, but it seems there some group thinkers on this forum who are looking for a villain to rail against. such an attitude by the local dueling banjo players will discourage a good many people with valuable opinions from continuing discussions at this domain. I am not one, but i've no doubt there are some...in fact i know this to be the case

There's a bit of contradiction in what you're saying though, don't you think? You criticise group think on the one hand, but advise it on the other. For aren't you effectively saying to those who would challenge the status quo to give up and adopt the prevailing, defeatist attitude?

That said, I agree that civility's important on this forum, but that it's been lacking in this particular thread. Assume good faith, folks.

you are drawing a very long bow there

[rubegoldbergdevice]

I read this article when it was originally published and sadly agreed with all of it. At the risk of being labelled a "troll" (which I have been unfairly accused of before and is a term thrown around on here a little too liberally for my liking), this article is spot on. Will's initial response was not a response at all but a reaction. No one outside of SA even knows Carnegie Mellon, etc have a presence here in Australia and their presence is mighty small in reality. A few rooms in the Torrens Building basically. Adelaide is NOT a university town. That is Rann spin; believe it if you want but it's not true. It has some universities, that is all. So does everywhere else.

It's the same as the "Arts Capital of Australia" tag tried out a few years back. Nice thing to aspire to, but complete bullshit. Christ, does anyone realise that Adelaide (with Canberra in Aust. of all places) is known as one of the glass-blowing centres of the world? Of course you don't. The Jam Factory is Don Dunstan's last remaining intact legacy and no one gives a shit. Typical, you see. Not capitalised upon in the slightest.

And yes to everything that people have defended that have been positive developments in Adelaide in the last few years, however all of these things are de rigueur in other Australian cities and have been for years (and if you're comparing Adelaide with Perth re. trading hours, you're showing a very weak hand). Adelaide is waking up after fifteen to twenty years of coma, that is all. There is a LOT of work to be done. Soem of the claims in this thread read like a country town! "We got Coles!!!!"

Just to clarify, I left Adelaide for Melbourne about two years ago and seriously, if you see me back there again, you know I f*cked up bad. I remember when I announced the move on here, I was greeted with "the grass is always greener on the other side... until you get there". Well, I'm here, it's been a while and the grass is still a deeply verdent hue. I was also accused of not getting the most out of the place. A hearty fuck you on that front. Worked in the arts and if you know who I am, you'll realise I was VERY active in investing my time in trying to make Adelaide awesome in my sphere of influence. Ultimately a brick wall came my way there, which I banged my head against for as long as I could. After a while you feel like a f*ckwit doing that.

I love Adelaide (born and bred in Kapunda, whose reputation is now being actively besmirched by The Bog Roll for future investment and sixteen years in the city), however having been away long enough now, I can get the national perspective. Which is exactly what Smith is outlining here, you must understand. Whilst I'll defend mindless Adelaide-bashing with a kick to the head, there are many things now I can't defend as a former resident. And he is correct in saying there is little corporate presence there (Santos HQ [the Brisbane premises are more impressive] and a few branch offices of various things such as SAAB Systems, etc). Smith's summarisation as Adelaide being a liability to SA is completely correct. The two biggest drawcards for tourists in Adelaide are the State Library and the Central Markets. Pretty crap. The awesomeness of SA is outside of Adelaide; the city is simply a gateway to better places as it stands. Or as Barry Humphries put it, "a nice place to have lunch" (he also asked if Athens was the Adelaide of the North... a good thing to ponder).

I appreciate well the verve and passion that people show for Adelaide on here. However I'm afeared that Adelaide is being loved to death. ANY outside comment that is in anyway negative is taken as a personal affront and makes everyone run back to their stoops and pull out a shotgun and cheesecloth. Hardly constructive. Adelaide is not achieving its potential; not on a national level, not on an international level and certainly not on the level of what those who know and cherish it see that it could be. I find it sad and frustrating, but I've left it behind. I'll land at ADL at Christmas, but then hurry off to Kapunda. There's more for me there.

This is my final post on Sensational Adelaide, so abuse me as you will. Remember there is a whole world beyond the Hills and the Coast. I think that's what Adels forgets.