[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[SBD]

Speaking of saving money, building the Majors Road interchange during duplication would've no doubt saved a significant amount of money as well.

But, SA has never been great at forward-planning.

SA is great at forward-planning...not so good at delivering on those plans

No, we're culturally horrible at forward planning. We're competent at underplanning, however. I think this is an ongoing cultural quirk dating back to the 1970s and 1980s when Adelaide responded to urban challenges in ways that were affordable and effective - e.g. O-Bahn. We were something of a world leader in this.

However, what is affordable nowadays is not effective. We haven't quite adapted this as yet, and as a result good projects often lack some useful features or items that are costly to later retrofit or adjust - e.g. adding connections directly from the new Ovingham Railway Station to the new Torrens Road rail overpass.

Has anyone heard a good engineering explanation for why the bridge and platform don’t have a direct connection? It’s a steel bridge, is it in a significantly different place on hot days that make it impractical to install a working elevator for example?

[rev]

SA is great at forward-planning...not so good at delivering on those plans

No, we're culturally horrible at forward planning. We're competent at underplanning, however. I think this is an ongoing cultural quirk dating back to the 1970s and 1980s when Adelaide responded to urban challenges in ways that were affordable and effective - e.g. O-Bahn. We were something of a world leader in this.

However, what is affordable nowadays is not effective. We haven't quite adapted this as yet, and as a result good projects often lack some useful features or items that are costly to later retrofit or adjust - e.g. adding connections directly from the new Ovingham Railway Station to the new Torrens Road rail overpass.

Has anyone heard a good engineering explanation for why the bridge and platform don’t have a direct connection? It’s a steel bridge, is it in a significantly different place on hot days that make it impractical to install a working elevator for example?

There's access to the train station from below the bridge.

[SBD]

No, we're culturally horrible at forward planning. We're competent at underplanning, however. I think this is an ongoing cultural quirk dating back to the 1970s and 1980s when Adelaide responded to urban challenges in ways that were affordable and effective - e.g. O-Bahn. We were something of a world leader in this.

However, what is affordable nowadays is not effective. We haven't quite adapted this as yet, and as a result good projects often lack some useful features or items that are costly to later retrofit or adjust - e.g. adding connections directly from the new Ovingham Railway Station to the new Torrens Road rail overpass.

Has anyone heard a good engineering explanation for why the bridge and platform don’t have a direct connection? It’s a steel bridge, is it in a significantly different place on hot days that make it impractical to install a working elevator for example?

There's access to the train station from below the bridge.

I was thinking that for example if the bridge is an arch (I don't think it is), that it might be higher in the middle on hot days. I haven't checked how it does handle heat expansion - is it anchored one end and moves freely at the other end? Would the middle move far enough to preclude bolting a lift shaft to it and to the ground?

[AG]

I was thinking that for example if the bridge is an arch (I don't think it is), that it might be higher in the middle on hot days. I haven't checked how it does handle heat expansion - is it anchored one end and moves freely at the other end? Would the middle move far enough to preclude bolting a lift shaft to it and to the ground?

The bridge beams sit on flexible bearings at each end (atop the bridge piers), which allow for expansion and contraction.

[PD2/20]

Has anyone heard a good engineering explanation for why the bridge and platform don’t have a direct connection? It’s a steel bridge, is it in a significantly different place on hot days that make it impractical to install a working elevator for example?

There's access to the train station from below the bridge.

I was thinking that for example if the bridge is an arch (I don't think it is), that it might be higher in the middle on hot days. I haven't checked how it does handle heat expansion - is it anchored one end and moves freely at the other end? Would the middle move far enough to preclude bolting a lift shaft to it and to the ground?

The bridge is on three sets of piers and the outer abutments. I believe it is anchored on the central piers (to the W of Exeter Tce and the railway). The bridge deck is arched, curved horizontally and is angled at about 45deg to the railway.

At how many locations would pedestrian access from the bridge be required: to the northbound platform, to the southbound platform/Devonport Tce, to Exeter Tce? What form of access: lift/ramp/stairs? Does the volume of passenger traffic at Ovingham justify providing access from the bridge?

[MT269]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

[SBD]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

I've never used either of them, but I guess the intended logic is the same as at Mawson Lakes where there are lifts from the Elder Smith Road bridge down to the platforms.

[rev]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

I've never used either of them, but I guess the intended logic is the same as at Mawson Lakes where there are lifts from the Elder Smith Road bridge down to the platforms.

There's no real easy access to the station at Mawson Lakes except from the eastern side. The freight corridor on the western side of the station is quite wide, it's three lines spread out as opposed to a single line at Ovingham which runs directly opposite the station platform.
Ovingham you can get to the station from either side from Exter Tce and Devonport Tce and from Torrens Rd/Drayton St underneath the bridge. There's no need to go up on the bridge to get down to the station.

[ChillyPhilly]

It was mentioned on Fresh FM this morning that additional dwellings may need to be acquired for T2D.

[dbl96]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

People would use the bridge to reach the platforms, like they do at other stations with pedestrian bridges (think the Showgrounds station). We should be moving towards grade separation of pedestrian access from the rail lines, like is the case in Sydney and elsewhere. As we seen several times in recent months, at grade access for pedestrians across the rail lines is dangerous, and I suspect this safety consideration may be one of the reasons why permitted speeds are so low on the Adelaide rail network.

Considering they were building the bridge anyway, I don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to integrate it with the station - an elevated station concourse on the side of the bridge, with stairs down to the platforms, as is commonplace in Sydney and elsewhere. This would be accompanied by closure of the at-grade pedestrian crossings below the bridge.

[SRW]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

People would use the bridge to reach the platforms, like they do at other stations with pedestrian bridges (think the Showgrounds station). We should be moving towards grade separation of pedestrian access from the rail lines, like is the case in Sydney and elsewhere. As we seen several times in recent months, at grade access for pedestrians across the rail lines is dangerous, and I suspect this safety consideration may be one of the reasons why permitted speeds are so low on the Adelaide rail network.

Considering they were building the bridge anyway, I don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to integrate it with the station - an elevated station concourse on the side of the bridge, with stairs down to the platforms, as is commonplace in Sydney and elsewhere. This would be accompanied by closure of the at-grade pedestrian crossings below the bridge.

As a general principle, sure. But in this specific example, why would pedestrians access Ovingham station from the road overpass? There are safer, nicer and more direct routes all around.

[Nort]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

People would use the bridge to reach the platforms, like they do at other stations with pedestrian bridges (think the Showgrounds station). We should be moving towards grade separation of pedestrian access from the rail lines, like is the case in Sydney and elsewhere. As we seen several times in recent months, at grade access for pedestrians across the rail lines is dangerous, and I suspect this safety consideration may be one of the reasons why permitted speeds are so low on the Adelaide rail network.

Considering they were building the bridge anyway, I don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to integrate it with the station - an elevated station concourse on the side of the bridge, with stairs down to the platforms, as is commonplace in Sydney and elsewhere. This would be accompanied by closure of the at-grade pedestrian crossings below the bridge.

The length of the bridge means you'd be adding a big detour for many pedestrians. Something more like Mawson Lakes would probably be better.

[PD2/20]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

People would use the bridge to reach the platforms, like they do at other stations with pedestrian bridges (think the Showgrounds station). We should be moving towards grade separation of pedestrian access from the rail lines, like is the case in Sydney and elsewhere. As we seen several times in recent months, at grade access for pedestrians across the rail lines is dangerous, and I suspect this safety consideration may be one of the reasons why permitted speeds are so low on the Adelaide rail network.

Considering they were building the bridge anyway, I don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to integrate it with the station - an elevated station concourse on the side of the bridge, with stairs down to the platforms, as is commonplace in Sydney and elsewhere. This would be accompanied by closure of the at-grade pedestrian crossings below the bridge.

As a general principle, sure. But in this specific example, why would pedestrians access Ovingham station from the road overpass? There are safer, nicer and more direct routes all around.

There is an issue with the ARTC line being blocked by passing freight trains. This is less of a problem with the DIT lines since the signals are only cleared (and the pedestrian crossing activated) once a stopping train has arrived at the platform.

If there was a greater volume of passenger traffic, provision of pedestrian access such as stairs or ramps could be justified.

The pedestrian crossing gates at the north end of the station were due to be commissioned two weekends ago but are now being commissioned this weekend.

[dbl96]

I don't understand the reason as to why someone would manoeuver onto the bridge, and then want to ascend down to the train station. Makes as much sense as the current inefficient road network, and the firing ranges in the country, where two oncoming missiles (usually cars or trucks miss by a tiny margin at the equivalent of 200kph.

Perhaps to reach a bus stop. But the purpose defeats itself.

People would use the bridge to reach the platforms, like they do at other stations with pedestrian bridges (think the Showgrounds station). We should be moving towards grade separation of pedestrian access from the rail lines, like is the case in Sydney and elsewhere. As we seen several times in recent months, at grade access for pedestrians across the rail lines is dangerous, and I suspect this safety consideration may be one of the reasons why permitted speeds are so low on the Adelaide rail network.

Considering they were building the bridge anyway, I don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to integrate it with the station - an elevated station concourse on the side of the bridge, with stairs down to the platforms, as is commonplace in Sydney and elsewhere. This would be accompanied by closure of the at-grade pedestrian crossings below the bridge.

The length of the bridge means you'd be adding a big detour for many pedestrians. Something more like Mawson Lakes would probably be better.

You would have stairs down to the ground not only onto the platforms, but down to the forecourt areas on either side - that way there would be no need to walk to the end of the bridge in order to access the stairs.

[rev]

The new has had the usual monthly sob story about property owners having to move with the government compensating them at market value.
What they did reveal was that business owners at least have until November next year to relocate. I could have misheard and they may have said 'next' November, but 90% sure they said November next year.
Not major news, but helps to start build a timeline of things unfolding for this project and gives us a rough idea of when demolition work could start.