News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

[mshagg]

That's a great outcome IMO and unfortunately not universal given the condition of the network and the issues they're having running a different spectrum compared to Telstra HFC. I do a bit of content creation on YouTube and the 2.5Mbps upload on the Telstra product (with speedboost) effectively kills that. I'd happily switch to 50/50 from 100/2.

I guess the obvious point is that those are a point in time speed and don't reflect what's happening at the POI during peak periods.

Of more concern is when you look at the business plan for HFC NBN and the number of customers they plan on connecting to a 'node' at peak during rollout. Each node is good for 813Mbps down, 82Mbps up. At peak they anticipate 900 premises connected to each node with a target of 500 premises at the end of the rollout, albeit with 1200Mbps down, 192Mbps up per node. That's means there is a physical limitation in the HFC network of 3Mpbs down, 0.5Mbps up per premises.

That's before you even overlay congestion at the POI...

[bits]

My internet speeds do not at all differ at any point in time. The speed is rock solid 2pm,4pm,6pm,8pm,10pm,etc.

Obvious speeds differ by server you connect to due to their speed limits

[rev]

I'm on cable with Telstra, I'm getting over 100Mbps down.

Pre-nbn I had 117/2.7 Telstra hfc.
Post-nbn I have 95/37 Telstra hfc.

While the extra upload is good I still find it kind of ridiculous that I had to drop my download speed to connect to nbn.
Many years of fast internet replaced with slower nbn.

Yeh it's laughable that we are able to get faster connection speeds pre-NBN, but when NBN rolls around to your area you are forced onto it, and receive an inferior product/service.

Meanwhile parts of America are on gigabit connections, and I believe Japan and South Korea are too.
There are some ISP's offering 200 and 300 Mbit NBN connections, but its rather expensive.

Not only am I receiving a faster service, I've also got unlimited monthly data. I get Foxtel on the same cable as well.
What's going to happen to the services I receive when NBN is rolled out here? They were going to do the HFC using the Telstra Cable...now though? Who the hell knows what the final result will be.

Will Telstra on their part offer me the same plan, unlimited data, and the fastest connection possible, and Foxtel, for a similar price?
Luckily for me when NBN is due here, my contract will have expired so I'll probably be changing ISP's.

Whose on NBN and what's a good provider?

[Nathan]

I have FTTP, and switched to a 100/40 connection through Aussie Broadband after a few years with 25/5 on Internode. Internode's quality and service has dropped since the iiNet and then TPG buyouts and they haven't updated their plans in ages. Cost me only an extra $5 a month to get the much faster connection, with the same bandwidth quota (although that was doubled for 6 months with a promo code). No complaints.

[rev]

So they've decided to do FTTC in my area now. Wont be ready till the first half of 2020. What a joke. By the time the whole country is connected to this NBN, the rest of the developed world will have star trek like teleportation devices from their cars to homes. FFS these politicians.

Anyway, so it's going to be fiber to the curb, and then the existing copper connection to the premises here. Quick question, will people be able to pay NBN Co to upgrade the last bit of copper between the curb and their premises, to fiber? Because #$!@ this copper off, it's the 21st century damn it. We should have moved on from the copper long ago.

[bits]

You could pay to have fibre to your home decade's ago, you can continue to do it with nbn.

[Waewick]

My install date just moved to June 19. That's now over 2 years from the original date.

[rev]

NBN two years late, $900 million over budget, suffering from out-of-date technology
Jennifer Dudley-Nicholson, National technology editor, News Corp Australia Network
December 22, 2018 7:30pm
Subscriber only

The National Broadband Network is as much as two years behind its completion deadline and the technology needs “billions and billions of dollars” to “catch up”.

The project is also facing a budget blowout of $900 million and, according to experts, could cost millions of dollars more in repair work that has yet to be revealed.

The stark predictions came as NBN Co admitted almost 1.2 million households due to receive one of the faster connections to the $51 billion network were instead stuck in NBN limbo, with more than half of the former pay-TV network deemed in such bad condition it was “unserviceable”.

Broadband and networking experts yesterday urged NBN Co and the Federal Government to ditch the technology — as New Zealand has done — and replace it with faster equipment to rescue the project and its deadline.

Former NBN Co chief technology officer Gary McLaren, who now runs a Hong Kong broadband provider, was among those voices, predicting the NBN’s beleaguered HFC connections would cost more money to fix and would deliver below par internet speeds.

“They will certainly have to pay more (to fix HFC connections). A legitimate question to ask is, ‘is it better to pay more or to go and put a more robust fibre network in?’” he said.

“The more fibre they put into the network, the better the outcome will be over the long-term.“

NBN Co recently revealed 1.19 million households and businesses were in broadband limbo after their HFC connections to the network were deemed unserviceable — more than any other connection type.

Analysis of NBN figures by Mr McLaren also showed the major infrastructure project had fallen significantly short of previous targets for broadband connections and activations, largely due to HFC delays, and would not be able to correct the trend by 2019.

At the same time, the number of households deemed unable to receive an NBN service had skyrocketed to more than 1.3 million, and costs had ballooned.

Mr McLaren said the infrastructure project had already failed in its original goal to provide Australians with a “future-proof network” and would not be internationally competitive when it was completed.

“The message coming from NBN Co and the Government is that the job is being done and it’s being finished but the reality is that there’s still a lot of work to do and Australia is still a long way behind the rest of the world,” Mr McLaren said.

“Billions and billions of dollars would be needed to catch up.”

RMIT network engineering association professor Mark Gregory said ongoing delays connecting HFC premises would see the NBN fail to meet its 2020 deadline by at least two years, and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s decision to regulate Telstra’s copper network until 2024 showed it could take longer for everyone to be connected.

“There’s just no indication from the numbers that NBN are going to complete the network in 2020,” he said.

Mr Gregory said NBN Co were already trying to blur the definition of a complete network, announcing its goal to have premises “ready to connect” by 2020, even though they would not be fully connected until 2022.

“In the legislation it defines it as being built and fully operational,” he said.

But NBN Co chief executive Stephen Rue insisted the network would meet the deadline, with 11.7 million premises ready to connect to the NBN, and 8.1 million households and businesses actively using it.

“There will inevitably be challenges in the remainder of the build, some known, some new,” he said. “But our ability to deploy the network at speed and scale is evident.”

[rev]

The NBN rollout will be interesting in the coming weeks. They say they are still connecting 30,000-40,000 customers a week.
What happens if they are told to stop work?
What happens if the rollout stops, and people who aren't connected but are due for 'disconnection' from the existing copper network in the months ahead, obviously aren't able to be connected to the NBN during this time? Will the disconnections be stopped?

[bits]

Of course the disconnection would not happen.
They have extended disconnection windows before eg for hfc issues.

Telstra and Optus also have embargoes on complex works that started today. eg cat c ports or connections etc. This typically only occurs over christmas.
This is due to lack of man power mostly from the closure of offshore call centres.

Some previously scheduled work may be completed but that is up to the carriers if they have available resources for the work.

So Telstras scheduled shut down of the isdn network likely will also get extended.

[rev]

Of course the disconnection would not happen.
They have extended disconnection windows before eg for hfc issues.

Telstra and Optus also have embargoes on complex works that started today. eg cat c ports or connections etc. This typically only occurs over christmas.
This is due to lack of man power mostly from the closure of offshore call centres.

Some previously scheduled work may be completed but that is up to the carriers if they have available resources for the work.

So Telstras scheduled shut down of the isdn network likely will also get extended.

Thanks.
I wish they'd put out a media statement regarding this stuff, or send out one of their little pamphlets with information. Not that I'll be stuck at home any time soon as my job is classed as an essential service no matter how bad it gets out there.

[claybro]

Surely we would be better served if 5G rollout was beefed up rather than trying to connect every single premesis to NBN.

[Goodsy]

Surely we would be better served if 5G rollout was beefed up rather than trying to connect every single premesis to NBN.

5G wouldn't be able to cope with the demand of the nation, wireless is a dead end

[SBD]

Surely we would be better served if 5G rollout was beefed up rather than trying to connect every single premesis to NBN.

Radio waves have an implicit maximum (shared) bandwidth. If everyone used 5G mobile data instead of fixed lines and local wifi, I imagine (but have not seen any study to confirm it) that we would all suffer due to congestion of a finite resource. Even FTTN gives us a dedicated wire to the node, and a higher-bandwidth link back from there, but suffers congestion at peak times. I'm not sure the fibre in FTTP goes any further back upstream, it just provides fibre instead of copper closer to the house. If all those signals moved into the 5G space, it could well run out.

[bits]

The words Fibre, copper, coax are not all that important, it is their application that matters.
Copper can reach a dedicated 10 gigabit/sec with off the shelf readily available hardware right now. Plenty of Fibre hardware has been 10 megabit/sec.

For nbn, fttp might be capable of 1gigabit/sec but hfc can do that also.
Nearly 100% of modern buildings are cabled with copper for their latest tech high speed networks. All of that is 1 gigabit and almost all capable of 10 gigabit.

Fttn aka vdsl aka a "copper" based service isn't great future proof but if it reaches the speeds you want to buy now it can be better than 5g. The vdsl is much easier to give reliable bandwidth and latency on than wireless tech like 5g.

Wireless networks tend to always be best effort - no guarantees, it just does the best it can for that moment in time. Tough luck if it falls short.
That is normally fine for residential where if something doesnt work right for a while it is annoying but you will quick get over once you learn it would cost you more to have a guaranteed service.

Many businesses do not want to operate on "it works a fair bit of the time" and instead prefer "I paid for this to work because I lose money when it doesn't".

Also standard Optus and Telstra mobile plans use carrier NAT but standard Optus and Telstra nbn plans do not. To keep the costs of the mobile plans down there is expensive things removed.

5g will not replace the nbn.