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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:46 am
by dbl96
abc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:18 am
A-Town wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:44 pm
One of the key reasons federal Labor allowed for record high levels of migration over the last two years has been to prevent a recession occurring. Whilst the government was successful in avoiding recession, it has led to a huge shortfall in housing stock and unsustainable prices as abc and others have alluded to.
Exactly, it was pure cynical politics to keep housing prices buoyant and avoid a technical recession. It will likely backfire at the next election though for Mr 30% as the fallout from this which includes the social cost will be felt for a generation at least. I see it firsthand here living in the City of Adelaide.
Just goes to show how dumb the way we calculate GDP is. Housing price increases don’t represent an increase in the size of the economy - they don’t relate to any increase in productive assets. It is pure asset price inflation. In actual fact, increasing house prices are like a chain around the ankle of economic growth, because they mean people have to tie up an increasing proportion of their earnings paying off ridiculous prices for unproductive assets (houses), rather than investing in productive ones like their businesses, or investing in building things, like increased supply of houses!
That’s not to mention all the terrible social consequences of the housing crisis.
The media likes to tell us that rising house prices are a great thing, and represent a massive increase in the wealth of Australians. But the fact is, that is a crock of BS. If the average homeowner want to realise the increased value of their home, they have to sell it. But they still need somewhere to live, so they then need to buy another home in the same inflated market, meaning on average they make zero profits. So millions of people may be paper millionaires, but these supposed millions don’t really exist practically unless you are downsizing or a property investor.
Housing prices flatlining or slowly declining would be a great thing for Australia, but no government has the guts to actually tackle the issue at its source by cracking down on negative gearing and other policies which incentive property investment. The increased demand for houses caused by property investors, and their deeper pockets compared with owner occupiers is one of the primary reason for inflated prices. But all the politicians and the powerful interest groups which donate to them have fingers in the pie of property investment. So they do nothing about it, instead offering gimmick populist solutions like first home buyer grants and 5% deposits. All first home buyer grants and 5% deposits do is pump even more money into the housing market, increasing prices further.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:02 am
by rev
dbl96 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:46 am
abc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:18 am
A-Town wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:44 pm
One of the key reasons federal Labor allowed for record high levels of migration over the last two years has been to prevent a recession occurring. Whilst the government was successful in avoiding recession, it has led to a huge shortfall in housing stock and unsustainable prices as abc and others have alluded to.
Exactly, it was pure cynical politics to keep housing prices buoyant and avoid a technical recession. It will likely backfire at the next election though for Mr 30% as the fallout from this which includes the social cost will be felt for a generation at least. I see it firsthand here living in the City of Adelaide.
Just goes to show how dumb the way we calculate GDP is. Housing price increases don’t represent an increase in the size of the economy - they don’t relate to any increase in productive assets. It is pure asset price inflation. In actual fact, increasing house prices are like a chain around the ankle of economic growth, because they mean people have to tie up an increasing proportion of their earnings paying off ridiculous prices for unproductive assets (houses), rather than investing in productive ones like their businesses, or investing in building things, like increased supply of houses!
That’s not to mention all the terrible social consequences of the housing crisis.
The media likes to tell us that rising house prices are a great thing, and represent a massive increase in the wealth of Australians. But the fact is, that is a crock of BS. If the average homeowner want to realise the increased value of their home, they have to sell it. But they still need somewhere to live, so they then need to buy another home in the same inflated market, meaning on average they make zero profits. So millions of people may be paper millionaires, but these supposed millions don’t really exist practically unless you are downsizing or a property investor.
Housing prices flatlining or slowly declining would be a great thing for Australia, but no government has the guts to actually tackle the issue at its source by cracking down on negative gearing and other policies which incentive property investment. The increased demand for houses caused by property investors, and their deeper pockets compared with owner occupiers is one of the primary reason for inflated prices. But all the politicians and the powerful interest groups which donate to them have fingers in the pie of property investment. So they do nothing about it, instead offering gimmick populist solutions like first home buyer grants and 5% deposits. All first home buyer grants and 5% deposits do is pump even more money into the housing market, increasing prices further.
There's nothing stopping anyone who owns a house, from using the equity in that house to purchase an investment property, and so on. Nothing other then their ability to service loans.
The issues you talk about have existed for a long time. They are not the major reason the housing market is through the roof.
It's a lot simpler. Supply and demand. There's far greater demand then there is supply. So people are desperate to get into their own home, and therefore willing to take on more debt to achieve that. They were able to do that easily with the record low interest rates we had in recent years, and many felt comfortable doing that because the RBA at the time said there wont be any rate increases for a while.
We have limited supply but very high demand. Adding more people will increase demand further. That's going to not only push prices higher, and price more people out of the dream of owning their own home, but it will create even bigger social issues that we will have to pay for. And why? Because politicians are useless and incompetent and cant come up with any other policy other then "bring more people in"?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:01 am
by SRW
Mods, we're more than two pages off-topic here. A little corrective?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:22 pm
by Westside
SRW wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:01 am
Mods, we're more than two pages off-topic here. A little corrective?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:43 pm
by NTRabbit
Back on track, I heard a strong rumour from a well placed source on the weekend that the less than 15 year old South Rd tram bridge needs to be pulled down and replaced, because the engineers can't figure out a way to make the pylons and the passanger entrances safely integrate into the finish section of the motorway, and the pylons are causing issues for the construction phase too.
Apparently it's actually been announced to the public and it's going to be done same time as the Marion bridge to save on line closure time, but thought I'd share in case anyone else missed it like I did.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:34 am
by Spotto
Not a strong rumour, it’s actually happening. They need to widen the road corridor beneath the overpass to accomodate the massive corridor for the motorway ramps and tunnel portal. You can see the sheer scale on the interactive T2D map.
The Marion/Cross Road overpass is going to be built at the same time to take advantage of the tram line closure.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:42 pm
by Nort
Yeah, just driving along that section of South Road it's clear the Tram bridge needs to be bigger to allow for the expansion.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
by rogue
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:15 pm
by muzzamo
Spotto wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:34 am
Not a strong rumour, it’s actually happening. They need to widen the road corridor beneath the overpass to accomodate the massive corridor for the motorway ramps and tunnel portal. You can see the sheer scale on the interactive T2D map.
The Marion/Cross Road overpass is going to be built at the same time to take advantage of the tram line closure.
Such a shame, having observed the design of the overpass in the 10,000 times or so I've been under it, it's always appeared to me to consist of 3 spans that are high enough for cars to pass under, with the middle span currently in use by South Road and the other two reserved for the future motorway. It struck me as good planning....
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:21 pm
by [Shuz]
rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:40 pm
by abc
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:21 pm
rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
Greenhill Road would make more sense
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:06 pm
by SouthAussie94
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:21 pm
rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
It's still showing on the DIT website, although details are very scarce. When was it announced that it had been scrapped?
Traffic flow at Morphett Rd could be massively improved if the traffic light sequences were tweaked a little. Heading North on Morphett, it's quite common for ANZAC to have a green light, while the pedestrian crossing south of the tram is allowing pedestrians to cross. The pedestrian crossing lights go green, ANZAC changes to red. While this is obviously a key cycle route and should have some level of priority, tweaking it so that pedestrians can only cross when ANZAC is red, or there is a tram would help.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:25 pm
by A-Town
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:21 pm
rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
Scrapped entirely, or just not proceeding at the same time as the Cross Rd and Marion Rd grade separation project? I hope it's just the latter, although it was never going to be done at the same time anyway.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:04 pm
by greenknight
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:21 pm
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
Really?
[U/C] Re: [U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 10:12 am
by ChillyPhilly
[Shuz] wrote:rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:18 pm
Morphett Rd grade seperation may also form part of the project whilst the tram line is closed
Can confirm Morphett Road grade separation has been scrapped.
Really hoping this isn't the case.
I wonder if part of this project was contingent on a new tram depot, perhaps in Hindmarsh as rumoured.