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Locate the pub in the middle, and in certain locations surrounding the pub and within the grounds of the beer garden locate a burger bar, yiros bar and a fish and chips bar for the drunk to congregate around, providing alternate focal points.

That's what I'm talking about, Stubbo! And some BIG screens, for the footy.

To lower the discussion to considerations of design, architects etc, in answer to Prince George: I agree that M. Mitterand and his ilque are no role models. I was referring to the 'notability factor' of the constructions. Prince G, you might read an essay by the design critic Kenneth Frampton on what he called 'critical regionalism' - the power of a local culture to express itself above the deluge of US West Coast/smartypants European culture which swamps the western world. In their arrogance and presumption, whatever you like to call it, you could say that the Grande Arche and Pei's pyramid were quintessentially French.

A community which is comfortable with its idea of itself is best placed to express 'critical regionalism'. We use corrugated iron and verandahs, for example, and bluestone etc happily and without apology in our domestic architecture. But we cringe when it comes to what we see as important statements. We want them to be 'world class', but they often end up like a copy of something out of a 1995 copy of Arkitektur - an unexceptional expression of 'contemporary international design'. It's very hard to avoid this sort of cultural cringe, in fact, but I think the best, most memorable work does avoid it. The less we avoid it the harder it becomes to avoid it in the future. Melbourne seems to be doing better at this than we are - they seem more confident about who they are, despite their stupid ads.

An international design competition isn't inconsistent with the idea of critical regionalism. Jorn Utzon's Sydney Opera House, in my opinion, says as much about Australia, Sydney Harbour, etc than anything you could think of. Sometimes a good designer can see the essence locals might miss.

On another point, it's not a good start in urban design to say 'We must do something and we must do it now'. Urban design is expensive stuff and we tend to be stuck with it for a long time.

to ramble on - Adelaide's major problem is in Light's design. For various practical reasons the centre of energy of the new city quickly drifted to the northern edge of the grid, instead of staying around Victoria Square and the grand boulevard of Grote/Wakefield streets, so we're left without a proper civic centre.

As for Rann and Foley, their administration is a pain, but arrogant as they are, they haven't yet reached the heights of pomposity of some French politicians. Only Gough has achieved that in this country, although Malcolm (Fraser) is well on the way.

stumpjumper wrote:to ramble on - Adelaide's major problem is in Light's design. For various practical reasons the centre of energy of the new city quickly drifted to the northern edge of the grid, instead of staying around Victoria Square and the grand boulevard of Grote/Wakefield streets, so we're left without a proper civic centre.

I have to agree with this. Dare I say it, Colonel Light got it wrong. He didn't take the distance from the water source (the Torrens) into account when he laid out his grand design, and the result is that our "City" (CBD) is not centred on Victoria Square. Perhaps if he'd let the Torrens run through Victoria Square on his plan .... but we can't fix that now. While I do like this plan for Victoria Square, I can't help feeling that things like the big screen and the big events would be better held down by the river, close to the railway station, under the bridge to Adelaide Oval (Elder Park, in fact).

zebra crossings are a death trap in Adelaide and a bad idea for this proposal
they're like bike lanes..drivers just dont acknowledge them

rhino wrote:

stumpjumper wrote:to ramble on - Adelaide's major problem is in Light's design. For various practical reasons the centre of energy of the new city quickly drifted to the northern edge of the grid, instead of staying around Victoria Square and the grand boulevard of Grote/Wakefield streets, so we're left without a proper civic centre.

I have to agree with this. Dare I say it, Colonel Light got it wrong. He didn't take the distance from the water source (the Torrens) into account when he laid out his grand design, and the result is that our "City" (CBD) is not centred on Victoria Square. Perhaps if he'd let the Torrens run through Victoria Square on his plan .... but we can't fix that now. While I do like this plan for Victoria Square, I can't help feeling that things like the big screen and the big events would be better held down by the river, close to the railway station, under the bridge to Adelaide Oval (Elder Park, in fact).

Has anybody thought about moving the torrens?

I did it a couple of years ago but my boss got pissed off and made me put it back before the Minister saw it.

rhino wrote:I did it a couple of years ago but my boss got pissed off and made me put it back before the Minister saw it.

so it was you who pulled the plug!

S-A members, countrymen, fellow bloggers,

Sens-Adel is compiling a feedback document in response to the ACC's Victoria Square / Tarndanyangga Regeneration Masterplan.

[edit] To clarify, please contribute your ideas & input to the VSQ submission document over here ==> http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... m.php?f=21

We are broadly supportive of the master plan. S-A will certainly not be requesting the ACC go back to the drawing board. The proposal contains many strengths, and some opportunities for improvement & clarification. It is with the latter where we will mostly focus.

The process is straightforward

• * Prince George, our own royal scribe, has kindly offered to pull together the draft parchment. All bow / curtsey in his online presence.
  * We would like to incorporate everyone's ideas as much as possible - please provide as much detail as possible when posting your thoughts
  * Be constructive & factual. Reference works done in other cities if required.
  * Deadline for your input is ~May 29 (allowing time for editing & proofreading prior to the ACC June 7 @ 5pm deadline)

I suspect the document itself will end up being quite modest (a few pages).

Individuals who choose to do *real* research (such as contacting the ACC to get their questions answered and contribute more actively to this process) will be elevated to "Knights of the Virtual Table" status by Prince George himself

You are encouraged to explore the http://www.victoriasquareadelaide.com website to learn more about the project. The website includes a virtual tour, the Master Plan, etc.

As with all group submissions, the feelings of certain individuals may not be fully met. If that proves to be the case with yourself, i strongly recommend you submit additional feedback to the ACC ==> http://www.adelaidecitycouncil.com/coun ... angga.html.

Questions?

Cheers...

Wayne

I am pleased the square will be well lit up at night and the detail, such as the lighting, will look great. However, i am still concerned a little about what will attract people there at night and the safety of those using the square when no events are on.

It would be great to attract 24 hour offices, such as call centres around Vic Square to really encourage a 24 hour flow of people.

Please ACC never put in a Hungry Jacks, Macca's or KFC nearby, all that will do is encourage the drunks and trouble makers to hang around the square...

So do we post about this here?

My one suggestion, if it can be done is underground Grote/Wakefield crossing - possibly with some public support. Other states have done this to raise finance - look at the opera house for example.

SA - STATE ON THE MOVE

to clarify, please contribute your ideas & input to the VSQ submission document over here ==> http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... m.php?f=21

skyliner wrote:My one suggestion, if it can be done is underground Grote/Wakefield crossing - possibly with some public support. Other states have done this to raise finance - look at the opera house for example.

Personally, I think any submission should stay well away from the tunnel fancy. The Council is clear that the funding is not available, and several of us here (myself included) don't want a tunnel.

But thank you to Wayno and His Royal Highness for showing the initiative. I'll be making my own submission to the Council, but I'll try and contribute to the Sen Adl collaboration anyway that I can (time permitting).

Wayno wrote: to clarify, please contribute your ideas & input to the VSQ submission document over here==> http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... m.php?f=21

All well and good, but it appears to be restricted to VIPs at present?

rhino wrote: ... While I do like this plan for Victoria Square, I can't help feeling that things like the big screen and the big events would be better held down by the river, close to the railway station, under the bridge to Adelaide Oval (Elder Park, in fact).

I would much prefer to see an upgrade of the Riverbank precinct given higher priority for funding than the Victoria Square plan. It would tie in with a raft of major and community events, extension of the Convention Centre and other much-needed redevelopment in the vicinity and it's much better placed for public transport.

Victoria Square would need the main roads to go underground to maximise the potential of this plan and make for a more pedestrian friendly place. I admit the plans look pretty attractive but I'm yet to be convinced that this should be the next big focus for improving our city.

rhino wrote:

stumpjumper wrote:to ramble on - Adelaide's major problem is in Light's design. For various practical reasons the centre of energy of the new city quickly drifted to the northern edge of the grid, instead of staying around Victoria Square and the grand boulevard of Grote/Wakefield streets, so we're left without a proper civic centre.

I have to agree with this. Dare I say it, Colonel Light got it wrong. He didn't take the distance from the water source (the Torrens) into account when he laid out his grand design, and the result is that our "City" (CBD) is not centred on Victoria Square. Perhaps if he'd let the Torrens run through Victoria Square on his plan .... but we can't fix that now. While I do like this plan for Victoria Square, I can't help feeling that things like the big screen and the big events would be better held down by the river, close to the railway station, under the bridge to Adelaide Oval (Elder Park, in fact).

Are you sure this has anything to do with Light's plan? It seems highly unlikely to me, as mains water was introduced just 20 years after the City was founded. I always understood the drift to be mainly due to the railway station location. The parliament location is also a significant factor.

Light got it right when he located the City away from the river. As well as the risk of flooding, buildings by the river would be more prone to earthquake damage.

Once we get a subway, the heart of the City is likely to move back to Victoria Square, though the northern side of the City will probably always be more densely developed than the southern side.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to make a submission themselves and contribute to a group submission - I intend to myself. Each of us have our own concerns or interests that might not be the same as the concerns of the group as a whole and we should all feel free to make them heard.

SRW wrote:
On the other hand, I have concerns about the pit-like nature of the events lawn, which (on the face of it) doesn't seem particularly conducive to an accessible space. Is it envisaged that there will be access to the lawn directly from the north (the area from which many people would be coming)? Would not it be better to allow some sort of amphitheatre-like stepping into the lawn, if not for the full perimeter then at least in parts -- at the stage area, for instance, when not in use?

i was thinkin that an amphitheatre like thingy would be good to around the edge of the lawned area, will comin in handy if it rains at anytime during or before an event is happening on the bigscreen.