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omada wrote:Re: the Grote Street debate, they should just close if off, the traffic from Grote can go around the square - no need for an underpass or bridge, or all cross city traffic should be encouraged to use Grenfell Street, there is no need to have so many four laned "highways" running through the city! It really annoys me - the ACC change everything but the most important element to Victoria Square. All these "bells and whistles" (arbor etc) and all that is required is traffic management.

Wayno wrote:[edit]oh, and i believe the E-W thoroughfare will be '1 car lane' wide in each direction. Buses only on the 2nd lane.

Prince George wrote:And IIRC, only buses will be able to turn right from the N/S lanes into this E/W corridor, not cars etc.

Prince George wrote:Spend some time at the South Rd / Cross Rd overpass and try to imagine that transported into Vic Square. Note how long the ramps on either end need to be and consider what that would be like on Grote or Wakefield street. Stand under the bridge section and listen to how much noise comes down from there.

Prince George wrote:First make two lists: one, all the bridges you can think of; the other, all the bridges that people like to spend time underneath. Which one is longer, and by how much?

Spend some time at the South Rd / Cross Rd overpass and try to imagine that transported into Vic Square. Note how long the ramps on either end need to be and consider what that would be like on Grote or Wakefield street. Stand under the bridge section and listen to how much noise comes down from there..

Prince George wrote: And it can't be a low bridge, as it still has to cross the traffic lanes and tram lines on either side of the square itself.

olliepee wrote:

Prince George wrote:Spend some time at the South Rd / Cross Rd overpass and try to imagine that transported into Vic Square. Note how long the ramps on either end need to be and consider what that would be like on Grote or Wakefield street. Stand under the bridge section and listen to how much noise comes down from there.

I wasn't suggesting an overpass at all. That'd be hideous.

But like I said, couldn't it be a pedestrian bridge/hill? It could have grass/vegetation on top and have a smooth incline to provide a high up view of the amphitheater - you wouldn't even know you're on top of a road.

Omicron wrote:Cars have steering wheels. This means that, when faced by obstructions like public squares, malls or buildings, they can divert course to avoid these.

omada wrote:Re: the Grote Street debate, they should just close if off, the traffic from Grote can go around the square - no need for an underpass or bridge, or all cross city traffic should be encouraged to use Grenfell Street, there is no need to have so many four laned "highways" running through the city! It really annoys me - the ACC change everything but the most important element to Victoria Square. All these "bells and whistles" (arbor etc) and all that is required is traffic management.

Wayno wrote: You have a choice:
a) Demand direct grote/wakefield traffic closure as a firm prerequisite - and have lobby groups shut down the entire project, or
b) Build the potential to permanently close the E-W thoroughfare into the design today. We'll get the improved square - and closure of the thoroughfare at some future point (might be near future or later)

Choose now!

[edit]oh, and i believe the E-W thoroughfare will be '1 car lane' wide in each direction. Buses only on the 2nd lane.

omada wrote:I'd still say option a) lobby groups, smobby groups. I think there would be a danger that grote/wakefield will always split the square - at some point a decision must be made - why not now?

omada wrote:I'd still say option a) lobby groups, smobby groups. I think there would be a danger that grote/wakefield will always split the square - at some point a decision must be made - why not now?



Because Harbison is Lord-Mayor. At the election that made him Mayor, the design of Vic Square became a political issue - Harbo ran on, and won largely because of, a guarantee that the E/W crossing would remain open. Until we have a new Mayor, it's simply not on the table.