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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:24 pm
by Aidan
Wayno wrote:excuse my ignorance - can someone please explain this to me...
What's the history of railway track gauges in south australia,
SA agrees with Vic and NSW that all track should be broad gauge. SA orders broad gauge stock before Irish NSW commissioner is replaced with Scottish NSW commissioner who prefers standard gauge. Lack of money results in some lines being built to narrow gauge instead. Some of these are later converted to broad gauge. Standard gauge interstate lines are constructed. Some places have triple gauge track. Eventually they start converting broad gauge lines to standard.
and what's the future have in hold? will this resleepering bring all SA rail onto a single gauge (and which one - narrow, broad, standard? and how wide is it?),
Not quite all of SA, as the Eyre Peninsula will still be narrow gauge. But nearly all of SA will be standard gauge (1435mm)
and will it be the same for commercial trains and all public rail transport (suburban trains and trams).
Yes.
Also, are other states heading in the same direction (ahead or behind) ourselves?
Vic is now a mixture of broad and standard, and not likely to completely standardize any time soon if ever - despite having standard gauge trams, the Melbourne suburban train system's completely broad gauge, and they've got a lot invested in it. Queensland's narrow gauge apart from a standard tentacle from NSW. It's likely to stay that way, though a few more standard gauge lines will gradually intrude. WA is similar, though with a few more standard gauge lines. NSW is standard except for a few cross border tentacles. And Tasmania's entirely narrow gauge.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:34 pm
by Wayno
thanks aiden, so do all interstate trains (commerical and passenger) use standard gauge?
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:52 pm
by Aidan
Wayno wrote:thanks aiden, so do all interstate trains (commerical and passenger) use standard gauge?
In Adelaide and between all state capitals, yes. The line from Adelaide to Melbourne remained broad gauge until the 1990s, but it's standard gauge now.
In SA I think so, though there may be a few broad gauge freight trains from Victoria venturing into the Lower SE.
A few lines in NSW were actually destandardized when the NSW rail network was cut back and Vic and Qld systems expanded slightly. I think they're still open, though the drought means they might not be.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:40 pm
by fabricator
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/images/ ... n4/pii.pdf
Adelaide’s rail network is undergoing the largest overhaul since its inception more
than 150 years ago. Following the upgrade to the Belair line, work will begin on upgrades
of the Noarlunga, Gawler and Outer Harbor lines as a precursor to electrification and a new era
for public transport. When his work upgrading the Belair line is finished
Project Director, Tim Warren will oversee work on the Noarlunga line.
“These are unprecedented and exciting times for rail in this State,” he said.
“Once again we will be replacing all existing timber and steel sleepers with gauge-convertible, concrete
sleepers, as well as improving track alignment, upgrading the base-layer and improving drainage.”
Favourable geo-technical conditions on this section of the Noarlunga line means the upgrade can be
undertaken over a series of weekend line closures starting late 2009. This will minimise the impact on
weekday commuters using the Noarlunga line with weekend train services to be replaced by
substitute bus services.
“This is the first step towards electrification of the Noarlunga line, which we expect to be complete in 2013,” Tim Warren notes. “The plan is to have electrification completed together with the opening of the rail extension to Seaford (see story on page 8 ). This will be a fantastic boost to communities in Adelaide’s south.”
The Federal Government has also allocated some $293.5 million towards upgrading and electrifying of the Gawler line at the same time.
Outer Harbor Line
Improvements will soon be made on the
Outer Harbor line through an upgrade of Port
Adelaide’s viaduct and various level crossings.
The viaduct (rail bridge) crosses Commercial
Road, Lipson Street and College Street adjacent
the Port Adelaide Station.
The upgrade of this viaduct will incorporate the
placement of new rail and sleepers as well as
steelwork repairs and application of a new and
environmentally friendly corrosion protection system.
To make sure the upgrade is undertaken in a safe
and efficient manner, the Outer Harbor line will
be closed from Woodville to Outer Harbor for
approximately 3-4 months from late 2009.
Substitute buses will replace train services on
this section of line with further information about
changed services available through Adelaide Metro
in the near future.
During the track closure, the level crossings at
Cheltenham Parade, Fussell Place, Rennie Road,
Fletcher Street, Strathfield Terrace and Golfcourse
Road will be upgraded.
New Connections will keep readers fully informed
of each new rail project as they begin. •
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:52 pm
by drwaddles
Aidan wrote:A few lines in NSW were actually destandardized when the NSW rail network was cut back and Vic and Qld systems expanded slightly. I think they're still open, though the drought means they might not be.
This is incorrect.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:51 pm
by Aidan
drwaddles wrote:Aidan wrote:A few lines in NSW were actually destandardized when the NSW rail network was cut back and Vic and Qld systems expanded slightly. I think they're still open, though the drought means they might not be.
This is incorrect.
I stand corrected. I thought I'd seen a map showing the broad gauge extended slightly where the standard had once been, but I can't find it or any evidence to support it, which probably means I've misremembered.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:57 pm
by Aidan
Outer Harbor Line
Improvements will soon be made on the
Outer Harbor line through an upgrade of Port
Adelaide’s viaduct and various level crossings.
The viaduct (rail bridge) crosses Commercial
Road, Lipson Street and College Street adjacent
the Port Adelaide Station.
The upgrade of this viaduct will incorporate the
placement of new rail and sleepers as well as
steelwork repairs and application of a new and
environmentally friendly corrosion protection system.
To make sure the upgrade is undertaken in a safe
and efficient manner, the Outer Harbor line will
be closed from Woodville to Outer Harbor for
approximately 3-4 months from late 2009.
Closing an entire line for
three months to repair a bridge that could easily be bypassed instead is an absolute disgrace. Does anyone have any idea how to convince the government to avoid this costly inconvenience?
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:33 pm
by fabricator
Aidan wrote:
Closing an entire line for three months to repair a bridge that could easily be bypassed instead is an absolute disgrace. Does anyone have any idea how to convince the government to avoid this costly inconvenience?
Riiiiiigggghhhtttt
So lets close the line for several years to wait for the Dual voltage trams to arrive and for contractors to string up overhead wire. :wank:
Without the grade separation from a bridge, railcars crossing Port Road at this point would be dangerous enough, travelling through the middle of Port Adelaide would make the car/tram accidents in recent times look tame.
The bridge has heritage listing on some sections of its structure, hence it can't simply be bulldozed either. And building a new one would take more than 3 months anyway.
Honestly I've seen this bridge and what pass for sleepers first hand, and like most of TAs network it needed fixing several years ago
before it became unsafe. To leave it any longer would be putting people's lives at risk.
No mention of them doing anything to the station itself, lets hope they do some work on it as well.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:39 pm
by Aidan
fabricator wrote:Aidan wrote:
Closing an entire line for three months to repair a bridge that could easily be bypassed instead is an absolute disgrace. Does anyone have any idea how to convince the government to avoid this costly inconvenience?
Riiiiiigggghhhtttt
So lets close the line for several years to wait for the Dual voltage trams to arrive and for contractors to string up overhead wire. :wank:
No,
let's keep the line open!
If the bridge is in imminent danger of collapse then patch it up - but that should not require an extended closure. Restrict it to single track if necessary, but keep it open until we can get the line converted to light rail. Don't bother with dual voltage, that's another pointless expense.
And don't worry about heritage listing - that can be overridden.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:03 pm
by Wayno
i believe the new sleepers are gauge convertible - why? are we expecting to change again? surely not...
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:01 am
by fabricator
Aidan wrote:fabricator wrote:Aidan wrote:
Closing an entire line for three months to repair a bridge that could easily be bypassed instead is an absolute disgrace. Does anyone have any idea how to convince the government to avoid this costly inconvenience?
Riiiiiigggghhhtttt
So lets close the line for several years to wait for the Dual voltage trams to arrive and for contractors to string up overhead wire. :wank:
No,
let's keep the line open!
If the bridge is in imminent danger of collapse then patch it up - but that should not require an extended closure.
Its already been patched up a year ago, however they were unable to replace/repair the decking, sleepers or track itself without closure. The main issue is the bridge decking, some of the steel work needs replacing/rewelding.
It only takes minor misalignment to cause a train to derail, which could kill someone. Also the risk of sleepers or steelwork falling, which could kill someone.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:36 am
by rhino
With regard to broad gauge trains in NSW, aren't the lines from Moulamein, Deniliquin and Oaklands heading south into Victoria broad gauge?
With regard to the viaduct at Port Adelaide, how long is it? I was under the impression it was more than just a bridge over Port Road / Commercial Street.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:16 pm
by fabricator
rhino wrote:
With regard to the viaduct at Port Adelaide, how long is it? I was under the impression it was more than just a bridge over Port Road / Commercial Street.
600m, not including earthworks.
Three road bridges, Lipson Street, Commercial Road, College Street, plus the station itself build on the structure. Have a look at it in google street view, the concrete is solid enough but those thin beams between the main spans are the main problem, and the whole thing needs a new coat of paint.
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:24 pm
by Aidan
fabricator wrote:Aidan wrote:
No, let's keep the line open!
If the bridge is in imminent danger of collapse then patch it up - but that should not require an extended closure.
Its already been patched up a year ago, however they were unable to replace/repair the decking, sleepers or track itself without closure. The main issue is the bridge decking, some of the steel work needs replacing/rewelding.
It only takes minor misalignment to cause a train to derail, which could kill someone. Also the risk of sleepers or steelwork falling, which could kill someone.
If you slow the train down then it takes a lot more to cause it to derail. And surely it's possible to weld enough reinforcement to it to hold it together for few years?
Re: Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:34 pm
by Aidan
rhino wrote:With regard to broad gauge trains in NSW, aren't the lines from Moulamein, Deniliquin and Oaklands heading south into Victoria broad gauge?
Yes they are. But they've always been broad gauge. There are plans to standardize them, but I'm not sure what the situation is regarding funding.
Some of the broad gauge lines in NSW used to have standard gauge lines meeting them, but (contrary to what I previously thought) the broad gauge has not been extended beyond the original break of gauge point.