[COM] New Royal Adelaide Hospital | $2.1b

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rev
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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#796 Post by rev » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:10 pm

JamesXander wrote: The Feds could afford it perhaps... But not South Australia. Im not politically inclined to any particular side, but the current financial situation SA sees itself in is scary. Yet we hear little about it. Deficits of nearly $1b and that's with highly optimistic construction and GST collection forecasts. Do you realize that we are very close to losing hundreds of millions of dollars through the current GST distribution review. I that happens we are screwed. SA has already cut thousands of PS jobs, you tell me how we are supposed to cut $1b+ in services each financial year. IMO Jack Snellings inability to control the budget blow out will spur its head in a year or two.

On the hospital- yes its great, I've heard terrible things about the current RAH. However building a $1.7b hospital when we are digging deeper into debt by the day... Scary. GFC or not SA is ina precarious financial spot of bother and next to nothing is being done about it besides crossing the old fingers and hoping Olympic Dam goes ahead!
Sorry, and I don't mean to offend you, but the argument that we can't afford it therefore shouldn't build it because it will put us into debt is irrelevant.

It is costing 1.7 billion in todays dollars.
Do you think the state will ever have 1.7 billion dollars sitting around to spare that it can throw at one single project and not worry about how it is going to pay for or finance other projects and obligations?
Lets say in ten years when all the global financial worries blow over, it's going to cost significantly more then 1.7 billion to build this hospital. So we will again have to borrow money.

This isn't money being borrowed and thrown away at some ridiculous project to show we are better then other states or cities or paying of the irresponsible practices of banks.
This is money being used to fund necessary and needed infrastructure and public services for this city and state.
Imho, this is an acceptable debt burden for the state. Because while we may incur a debt either directly or indirectly through needing to borrow money for other things, we are getting necessary infrastructure and services for the public. And that is part of the governments role and responsibilities, to provide those services and infrastructure.

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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#797 Post by Maximus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:32 pm

This:
rev wrote:Sorry, and I don't mean to offend you, but the argument that we can't afford it therefore shouldn't build it because it will put us into debt is irrelevant.

It is costing 1.7 billion in todays dollars.
Do you think the state will ever have 1.7 billion dollars sitting around to spare that it can throw at one single project and not worry about how it is going to pay for or finance other projects and obligations?
Lets say in ten years when all the global financial worries blow over, it's going to cost significantly more then 1.7 billion to build this hospital. So we will again have to borrow money.

This isn't money being borrowed and thrown away at some ridiculous project to show we are better then other states or cities or paying of the irresponsible practices of banks.
This is money being used to fund necessary and needed infrastructure and public services for this city and state.
Imho, this is an acceptable debt burden for the state. Because while we may incur a debt either directly or indirectly through needing to borrow money for other things, we are getting necessary infrastructure and services for the public. And that is part of the governments role and responsibilities, to provide those services and infrastructure.
...I agree with. (Except for the "then", which should be "than". Sorry. :oops: )

This:
JamesXander wrote:Do you realize that we are very close to losing hundreds of millions of dollars through the current GST distribution review.
...is highly unlikely. The interim report doesn't recommend a per capita distribution, which is what the media has been scaremongering/crowing about (depending on which state you live in). Interim report is here: http://www.gstdistributionreview.gov.au ... eports.htm
It's = it is; its = everything else.
You're = you are; your = belongs to.
Than = comparative ("bigger than"); then = next.

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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#798 Post by JamesXander » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:58 am

The state is relying on unrealistic growth forecasts and overly optimistic gst allocations. We are going to hit a $1b deficit forecast and I'm saying now its going to be worse than that. The hospital will be the last major state project for a while. Massive structural and financial changes need to be made at a state level in order for us to be growth state once again. We are digging ourselves into a massive hole ATM. Whilst the hospital is going to be great it is way outside the realms of our financial ability to reasonably afford it.

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#799 Post by JamesXander » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:01 am

Maximus wrote:This:
rev wrote:Sorry, and I don't mean to offend you, but the argument that we can't afford it therefore shouldn't build it because it will put us into debt is irrelevant.

It is costing 1.7 billion in todays dollars.
Do you think the state will ever have 1.7 billion dollars sitting around to spare that it can throw at one single project and not worry about how it is going to pay for or finance other projects and obligations?
Lets say in ten years when all the global financial worries blow over, it's going to cost significantly more then 1.7 billion to build this hospital. So we will again have to borrow money.

This isn't money being borrowed and thrown away at some ridiculous project to show we are better then other states or cities or paying of the irresponsible practices of banks.
This is money being used to fund necessary and needed infrastructure and public services for this city and state.
Imho, this is an acceptable debt burden for the state. Because while we may incur a debt either directly or indirectly through needing to borrow money for other things, we are getting necessary infrastructure and services for the public. And that is part of the governments role and responsibilities, to provide those services and infrastructure.
...I agree with. (Except for the "then", which should be "than". Sorry. :oops: )

This:
JamesXander wrote:Do you realize that we are very close to losing hundreds of millions of dollars through the current GST distribution review.
...is highly unlikely. The interim report doesn't recommend a per capita distribution, which is what the media has been scaremongering/crowing about (depending on which state you live in). Interim report is here: http://www.gstdistributionreview.gov.au ... eports.htm
The per capita distribution wasn't endorsed but neither was the current system. A change is going to happen and it's definitely not going to see SA's already generous allocations increased. Infrastructure for growth is IMO going to be a key distribution consideration from now on. And growth isn't a word commonly associated with South Australia.

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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#800 Post by skyliner » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Well QLD is in a much worse condition than SA - hit with both the mining tax and carbon tax. It is $84Bn in debt and the current PM is getting rid of thousands of public service workers (about 25000) to try and balance the books. We have 'sold a lot of the the farm' in the GFC and overspent on infrastructure. Payback time seems nigh. Cost of living has skyrocked and people are leaving the state in their thousands.State growth has radically slowed down.
Of course this will only be 'for a season' and the recovery will oc cur.

Lets be glad SA has not got the same issues.

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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#801 Post by JamesXander » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:41 am

Ha, well now our state budget is completely fcked. Massive jobs cuts, projects cuts & tax increases here we come. Jack Snelling's head should be on the block.

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#802 Post by rev » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:51 pm

Why should Snellings head be on the block?
Since it's obvious you are referring to ODX(which has nothing to do with the new hospital) Is he somehow responsible for BHP deciding to not go ahead with their current expansion plans for OD?
What BHP wanted, what the state gov. wanted, was for OD to be expanded. The previous government paved the way for BHP to expand OD without any red tape and bureaucracy getting in the way.
It is BHP which has failed to deliver, not the state government.
Snelling also did not give the go ahead for the new hospital. He inherited all this stuff.

And if you guys accept a big corporation using the global economy as an excuse to back away from an expansion of a mine, then you should also accept the government using the excuse of the global economy for a decline in state finances. We live in a global economy where economies are interconnected. One affects the other. We are not immune.

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#803 Post by JamesXander » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:45 am

rev wrote:Why should Snellings head be on the block?
Since it's obvious you are referring to ODX(which has nothing to do with the new hospital) Is he somehow responsible for BHP deciding to not go ahead with their current expansion plans for OD?
What BHP wanted, what the state gov. wanted, was for OD to be expanded. The previous government paved the way for BHP to expand OD without any red tape and bureaucracy getting in the way.
It is BHP which has failed to deliver, not the state government.
Snelling also did not give the go ahead for the new hospital. He inherited all this stuff.

And if you guys accept a big corporation using the global economy as an excuse to back away from an expansion of a mine, then you should also accept the government using the excuse of the global economy for a decline in state finances. We live in a global economy where economies are interconnected. One affects the other. We are not immune.

The government is not responsible at all for the expansion not going ahead. What they are responsible for is putting the expansion as part of their budget forward estimates, despite signals for quite some time that the project was going to be delayed.

Jack Snelling should be held to account because he knew/knows the enormity of our current situation. The state finances are now in tatters. He should have taken action 12 months ago instead of relying on unrealistic GST distribution estimates & counting on the ODX to have massive flow on effects. The facts now remain...1. We have the highest state taxes in Australia despite being the second poorest state.2. We have already made huge PS cuts 3. The so called razor gang which was meant to put us back in the black has failed & 4. We are now locked into simalantious major projects which are costing Billions..... AND LASTLY we are going to massively increase our deficiet & debt whilst whats looking like heading into a nationwide recession (if resource prices stay low).

Its going to get ugly in the next 12 months.

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[COM] Re: U/C: New Royal Adelaide Hospital | News & Construction o

#804 Post by The Scooter Guy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:35 pm

The site is still looking like a soil mine as they're still trying to get rid of the waste oil left by the trains throughout the decades.
For starters, my avatar is the well-known Adelaide Aquatic Centre insignia from 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWk8YPx2zHziHgvyPy_9fxQ
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#805 Post by Nort » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:56 pm

JamesXander wrote:1. We have the highest state taxes in Australia despite being the second poorest state.
Got the source numbers for those? Are you taking a per-capita number and comparing it to a gross number?

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#806 Post by dsriggs » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:08 pm

JamesXander wrote:1. We have the highest state taxes in Australia despite being the second poorest state.
Image

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#807 Post by Waewick » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:52 am

Nort wrote:
JamesXander wrote:1. We have the highest state taxes in Australia despite being the second poorest state.
Got the source numbers for those? Are you taking a per-capita number and comparing it to a gross number?
I believe he is talking rates - i.e we have the highest payroll taxes in the country and the highest land tax in the country - but that is in terms of the actual charge rather than a gross position (which is pretty irrelevant when you are talking about a state of 1.2M against a states of 4M+)

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#808 Post by skyliner » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:14 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think we have 1.6M in the state.

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#809 Post by The Scooter Guy » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Animations from today:
Image
Image
For starters, my avatar is the well-known Adelaide Aquatic Centre insignia from 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWk8YPx2zHziHgvyPy_9fxQ
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#810 Post by mattblack » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:14 pm

First crane sections on site this morning. :D

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