Sensational-Adelaide.com

AtD wrote:Am I the only one who thinks all the "gardens" around the intersection are wasteful?

Probably! Do you regard the Adelaide Parklands as wasteful too?

I can foresee them turning into "shopping trolley pasture" in the future. Who's going to actually use the space?

Pedestrians.

Why not sell the land back to businesses?

The land is rather narrow. Tokyo businesses would probably be interested in blocks that small, but I'd expect Adelaide businesses to want something more substantial.

Also the gardens fulfil two useful functions: they make the road look nicer to drive or ride down, and they absorb the pollutants emitted by the vehicles.

drwaddles wrote:Why do the line-markings tell you that you can't turn left, but the AD sign does?

Probably not necessary, as there is a broken line across the bike lane, and a "Turn Left at any time with care" sign
at Anzac Hwy.

AtD wrote:Am I the only one who thinks all the "gardens" around the intersection are wasteful? I can foresee them turning into "shopping trolley pasture" in the future. Who's going to actually use the space?

Why not sell the land back to businesses?

Adam, the photos don't really do it justice. The area is smaller and i think they have done a good job 'beautifying' the area instead of the mass of concrete.

Also, it will leave more room down the track and perhaps save on any future compulsory acquisitions. I think we all agree this intersection could have been doen better in many ways, so who knows what the future holds.

Xaragmata wrote:

drwaddles wrote:Why do the line-markings tell you that you can't turn left, but the AD sign does?

Probably not necessary, as there is a broken line across the bike lane, and a "Turn Left at any time with care" sign
at Anzac Hwy.

It's still actually illegal to turn left from a lane that has markings indicating through and right movements only.

Brando wrote:Adam, the photos don't really do it justice. The area is smaller and i think they have done a good job 'beautifying' the area instead of the mass of concrete

Thank you for your straight forward answer Brando. The photos make the area look quite vast, to me at least.

I came across the 2006 ALP Roads Policy while looking for something else - ah, the spin and memories ...

http://www.sa.alp.org.au/download/now/roads_policy.pdf
[...]
The North-South Corridor
The Rann Government wants to improve the flow of traffic along the North-
South Corridor. As a consequence, the Government has already committed:
• $122 million to build a tunnel taking South Road under Grange Road,
Port Road and the Outer Harbor rail line. 1
• $65 million to build an underpass taking South Road under Anzac
Highway.2
• $47 million to widen South Road between Port Road and Torrens
Road.
These North-South Corridor projects were announced as the first stages of
the Government’s vision to transform South Road and create continuous, nonstop
travel from the Southern Expressway at Bedford Park to the Port River
Expressway at Wingfield.
These projects, when completed by the end of 2009, will:
• relieve the most congested bottlenecks on South Road
• improve safety for road users
• upgrade the only remaining unimproved section of South Road
between Torrens Road and Port Road
• reduce travel times for commuter and freight traffic.
[...]

It's possible to throw most things down the Memory Hole, but the net & multiple web sites
make the job all that much harder.

Interesting how $65m blew out to $118m for the underpass, and the tunnel's five-fold blowout from $122m to $600m, if not higher.

Ahhh...memories...

Looks like the Port/Grange Rd section has disappeared off the radar - it's been completely removed from DTEI's website:

http://dtei.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/south_road_upgrade

DM8 wrote:Looks like the Port/Grange Rd section has disappeared off the radar - it's been completely removed from DTEI's website:

http://dtei.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/south_road_upgrade

The March 2009 version is still in google's cache ...
http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:AT ... =firefox-a

Home > Infrastructure > South Road Upgrade > Grange to Port Road

Grange Road, Port Road and Outer Harbor Rail Line and widening of South Road between Port Road and Torrens Road.
The project involves the upgrade of South Road, between Grange Road and Manton Road at Hindmarsh, and Torrens
Road at Ridleyton.

The state government's proposal is for South Road to be reconstructed so that traffic on South Road will continue
uninterrupted past the Grange Road and Manton Street intersection, the Port Road intersection and the Outer Harbor
Rail corridor. South Road will also be widened from the rail corridor to Torrens Road.

I'm sure they will reheat the leftovers in time for the next election (not partisan, just cynical)

I hate to be a pest (well sometimes I find it slightly amusing that everyone's against me on the issue, but only sometimes ), but do people see what I meant when i said South Road wouldn't be able to cope? Maybe (or rather hopefully ) once they have completely finished the work, the traffic will be smoother, but to people see, by those select photos, what I meant when I said a two-lane-each-way-with bike-lanes,-etc.-road wouldn't be able to cope as the North-South Corridor of a city with a population of (according to the government's hopes) 2 million people by 2040 or whatever it is?
A freeway isn't necessarily the answer either, but an underground tollway (like you suggested in your longer-term plan, Aidan) where people either choose to pay a fee for the quicker route or choose not to and remain on the suburban roads... Hmmm....
Yes I know that PT will be better for the environment (but not necessarily for our convenience -sorry, couldn't resist), but with advances in car technology to make them cleaner emerging and the economists predictions that we'll be tipped to boom once the recession's* over, hey, why not!
Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but people don't all need to commute to the CBD's North-Eastern corner! Sometimes it's just easier to drive there** if your city's PT System ain't up to scratch with the rest of the Nation.
Adam.

*C'mon, while I agree that we need to be careful that we don't send the nation and ourselves bankrupt in the coming years, the Global Economic Downturn WON'T LAST FOREVER!!!! Stop paying attention to the doom-and-gloom-promoting media!
**For those wondering why I believe that cars are more convenient in Adelaide, it's not because I've turned 16 in the last 3 months and am going for my L's. I don't have any intention of getting my L's at least until I start Uni (hopefully). Until then I don't need them! I think that cars are usually more convenient because Adelaide's quite a low density city and not everyone's going to live in TODs. Also, what about all the after-school-and-out-of-hours-sport-and-activities that people attend> Hmm? And what about the trips around the city and its surrounding areas that people take? Hmm. Believe me, I've found it quicker to get from Hazelwood Park to TTP by car than by PT and either way, I can just stare out the window, not be the one concentrating on driving the vehicle, so there's no bias in that statement; just pure facts.

Shuz wrote:Interesting how $65m blew out to $118m for the underpass, and the tunnel's five-fold blowout from $122m to $600m, if not higher.

Sadly, that's the story around the world - the quoted costs either are just plain wrong, or didn't include a swathe of things that also had to be done to build the project.

adam73837 wrote:I hate to be a pest (well sometimes I find it slightly amusing that everyone's against me on the issue, but only sometimes ), but do people see what I meant when i said South Road wouldn't be able to cope? Maybe (or rather hopefully ) once they have completely finished the work, the traffic will be smoother, but to people see, by those select photos, what I meant when I said a two-lane-each-way-with bike-lanes,-etc.-road wouldn't be able to cope as the North-South Corridor of a city with a population of (according to the government's hopes) 2 million people by 2040 or whatever it is?

I absolutely see what you mean. However your conclusion may be incorrect, for two reasons: firstly I've seen roads in England upgraded in that way, and they can cope with a lot. Secondly, there are alternatives to South Road. In both the northern and southern suburbs there are a lot of parallel roads. Even though Tapleys/Brighton Road is the only other one that goes all the way across and is comparable in length, they are still very useful alternatives when traffic is heavy - indeed when heading S on S Rd in the PM peak before the underpass was constructed, it was quicker to detour via Port Rd, Railway Tce and Anzac Highway - despite the obvious delay on the short stretch of Richmond Road involved.

There was a long term plan to link Marion Road with Hanson Road. Obviously this would involve aligning it and Holbrooks Road, though quite how Holbrooks and Hanson Roads would be linked I don't know. Nor do I know if the plan is still on the official long term agenda, but it could be done if necessary.

But the railway is the thing that could make the most difference to traffic flow, and that's the reason why a tunnel under the City is so important.

A freeway isn't necessarily the answer either, but an underground tollway (like you suggested in your longer-term plan, Aidan) where people either choose to pay a fee for the quicker route or choose not to and remain on the suburban roads... Hmmm....

If we do ever need an underground tollway, I now think it would be better to construct it under Morphett Road and Findon Road, serving Adelaide Airport directly.

Yes I know that PT will be better for the environment (but not necessarily for our convenience -sorry, couldn't resist), but with advances in car technology to make them cleaner emerging and the economists predictions that we'll be tipped to boom once the recession's* over, hey, why not!

By the time the upgraded South Road becomes insufficient we might be in the next recession, or the boom following that, or even the bust after that.

Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but people don't all need to commute to the CBD's North-Eastern corner! Sometimes it's just easier to drive there** if your city's PT System ain't up to scratch with the rest of the Nation.

No amount of road infrastructure is an adequate alternative to a decent PT system.

*C'mon, while I agree that we need to be careful that we don't send the nation and ourselves bankrupt in the coming years, the Global Economic Downturn WON'T LAST FOREVER!!!! Stop paying attention to the doom-and-gloom-promoting media!

Despite the opposition's whinging, the nation is in no danger whatsoever of going bankrupt. If anything it's not investing enough in infrastructure. Unfortunately the state can not afford anywhere near as much.

**For those wondering why I believe that cars are more convenient in Adelaide, it's not because I've turned 16 in the last 3 months and am going for my L's. I don't have any intention of getting my L's at least until I start Uni (hopefully). Until then I don't need them! I think that cars are usually more convenient because Adelaide's quite a low density city and not everyone's going to live in TODs. Also, what about all the after-school-and-out-of-hours-sport-and-activities that people attend> Hmm? And what about the trips around the city and its surrounding areas that people take? Hmm. Believe me, I've found it quicker to get from Hazelwood Park to TTP by car than by PT and either way, I can just stare out the window, not be the one concentrating on driving the vehicle, so there's no bias in that statement; just pure facts.

The density and TODs have less to do with it than most people think. The vast majority of people have a bus stop within about five minutes' walk of their home. It's the operating frequency that's inadequate.

Prince George wrote:

Shuz wrote:Interesting how $65m blew out to $118m for the underpass, and the tunnel's five-fold blowout from $122m to $600m, if not higher.

Sadly, that's the story around the world - the quoted costs either are just plain wrong, or didn't include a swathe of things that also had to be done to build the project.

whoever came up with $122m for a tunnel from Grange Road to Torrens Road is a moron, Northbridge Tunnel in Perth over a similiar distance cost over $300m almost ten years ago.

Aidan wrote: There was a long term plan to link Marion Road with Hanson Road. Obviously this would involve aligning it and Holbrooks Road, though quite how Holbrooks and Hanson Roads would be linked I don't know. Nor do I know if the plan is still on the official long term agenda, but it could be done if necessary.

This route has needed an upgrade for a long time and if it were upgraded, would take a fair amount of traffic from South Rd. Holbrooks Rd and East Ave as well as Marion Rd and Holbrooks both need aligning. The short stretches of Port rd and torrens rd could do with an extra lane to separate the n-s traffic from the se-nw traffic (with traffic lights synchronised between the two intersections each on torrens and port rds), and the route needs to be 2 lanes each way. Then the A14 will stretch right from the Southern Expressway to the Port Expressway.

This would be a lot cheaper than another freeway or tollway and work with the current strategy. The major problem is the residents living along the route would not allow for their relatively quiet rd to be transformed into a major route.

Westside wrote: The major problem is the residents living along the route would not allow for their relatively quiet rd to be transformed into a major route.

These properties need to be aquired by stealth. As they come up for sale, they should be snapped up by DTEI and rented out until the right time. Not so long ago, I believe the Highways Dept was one of the largest property owners in the state, doing exactly this - buying properties that were strategic for their department.