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Regarding a busway in Sydney. A cold day in hell mate. I have been in Sydney all week having a look at the George St tram under construction along with the other light rail being planned it's obvious why busway options were rejected here.

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There is a busway in Sydney's west. In fact, there is a lot of them, all branching out from Parramatta. But anyway...



Back to the south-east light rail link. The proposal is to have the trams as the main trunk, and have buses feed out from the interchanges along it. At least, that's how I understood it to be. But then again, Anzac Parade is very different to the Linear Park.

Norman wrote:There is a busway in Sydney's west. In fact, there is a lot of them, all branching out from Parramatta. But anyway...



Back to the south-east light rail link. The proposal is to have the trams as the main trunk, and have buses feed out from the interchanges along it. At least, that's how I understood it to be. But then again, Anzac Parade is very different to the Linear Park.

Yes . The obvious reason I alluded to was INTEGRATION. that's why the bus way there will remain local and the main job of a new transport connection from parramatta to the city will go to light rail for many reasons

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Yes, but like I said, you can't compare Anzac Parade and Linear Park. Completely different surroundings. Anzac Parade is a long stretch of apartments, shops and offices. Linear Park is a thoroughfare. It's like putting in an O-Bahn through The Parade. No one is silly enough to do that.

Which only proves why light rail is the better and preferred option if you apply that logic laterally. Obahn are obviously regretting there not being more linear parks in the world only built up areas and congested roads which required proper transport solutions

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One obvious reason for not converting the OBahn to LR is the time taken to do it. Can you image 31,000 people per day being pushed onto NE Road, North Rd etc during the 12 months plus it would take to do the conversion? And then, after everyone had re-learnt how to use their private cars to get to and from the city, we'd have to hope that they would relearn how to use PT instead. I suspect the resultant transport mayhem would cost whichever party made the decission the next election.

The simple fact is that OBahn works. It work so well that it is quicker to route buses from the Northern Suburbs out to the North-East and down the OBahn than to bring them down Main North Rd. One reason its so good is because it is the only truly express PT service in Adelaide with only 3 stops all of which can be bypassed.

There's also a bit of parochialism here. It's uniquely Adelaide. Pulling up the OBahn would be a bit like telling the Melbournians to get rid of their trams and the Sydneyites to get rid of their ferries.

Yes it works but NEAPTR was far superior. Uniquely Adelaide? I suppose much like the original southern express way which had to be corrected and the retractable oval lights which also had to be corrected. As you said bit harder to do with the obahn. In the same vein as the melb trams and Sydney ferries ? Seriously ? More like the monorail which they couldn't wait to get rid off.

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citywatcher wrote:Which only proves why light rail is the better and preferred option if you apply that logic laterally. Obahn are obviously regretting there not being more linear parks in the world only built up areas and congested roads which required proper transport solutions

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Sigh. One more time. The O-Bahn works in its current form. Yes, it's a niche it has filled nicely. Light rail would not have been able to branch out like buses can on the O-Bahn.

It suits the sprawl of the north-eastern suburbs. It suits Linear Park.

It has made an impart on how the north-eastern suburbs were developed in the 1990s, after the O-Bahn was completed.

Would the form of the north-eastern suburbs have been different if light rail was selected? Of course.

Other transport solutions work well in other areas in Adelaide and around the world, where those systems are made for the areas they serve.

However, the O-Bahn and its related systems fill niches in parts of city transport systems all over the world, where it is appropriate.

If you want to talk about failures, talk about the Sydney Monorail. Talk about trolleybuses in Adelaide. Talk about the removal of trams from Adelaide's main streets. But the O-Bahn is not a failure.

Sigh. That is only opinion and assumption on your part. Rail would have done the job better. Like you stated " niche " . The coming years will show it up for the short sightedness it was as the area will continue to grow .

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citywatcher wrote:Sigh. That is only opinion and assumption on your part. Rail would have done the job better. Like you stated " niche " . The coming years will show it up for the short sightedness it was as the area will continue to grow .

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We have given you facts around capacity, costs and patronage.

"Rail would have done the job better" sounds a lot like an unsubstantiated opinion. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Well have you?
I can see plenty of posters on here providing you with data to the contrary but all I can see from the other argument is oh yeah but it's ours and we like it .
If you want to argue about the role of rail in history go for it pal. Just picture a vision of this : a fast rail line to Modbury which puts in the necessary infra structure which can be extended as the years go by -could have gone all the way out to Greenwith by now - and on top of that a light rail loop connecting important hubs around the TTG council area. Yeah . Vision . Integration. Can you imagine it .

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citywatcher wrote:Well have you?
I can see plenty of posters on here providing you with data to the contrary but all I can see from the other argument is oh yeah but it's ours and we like it .
If you want to argue about the role of rail in history go for it pal. Just picture a vision of this : a fast rail line to Modbury which puts in the necessary infra structure which can be extended as the years go by -could have gone all the way out to Greenwith by now - and on top of that a light rail loop connecting important hubs around the TTG council area. Yeah . Vision . Integration. Can you imagine it .

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I just told you that we have given you patronage figures, capacity figures and costs

I just told you others have contradicted your figures. I have also asked you if you could see the bigger picture. Clearly you couldn't. Pathetic.

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citywatcher wrote:I just told you others have contradicted your figures. I have also asked you if you could see the bigger picture. Clearly you couldn't. Pathetic.

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Ok, let's go back to the facts then.

• Highest patronage of any mode in Adelaide, higher than any train line. 31,000 per day.
• Suburbs along the O-Bahn have consistently the highest PT share out of all suburbs in Adelaide
  
• Cost of the project was $98m for 12km of track. In today's dollars that is about $210m. The 12km Canberra light rail project is going to cost $700m, and that is with a lot fewer engineering problems around bridges and so on.
• Capacity of 18,000 people per hour. If a tram can carry 300 people every 2 minutes, that is only 9000 people per hour.

Based on those figures, and going back to your original point, the O-Bahn is not a failure.

Will heavy rail be more suitable for the future of this track? Possibly, if more people live and work around the interchanges in the future. But for the needs of the north-eastern suburbs in 1980s until today and for a few more decades yet, it is the right mode of transport.

Ok now quote the figures that contradict your assumptions which after all are only statistics which can be interpreted any way you like. For example why is canberra spending $500m. more than it needs to. The answer is obvious. I have told you the answer but you admitted it to yourself by agreeing a rail would have been better. Decades to come? You must be insane . Or more likely a bureaucrat well versed in political expediency. Make sure you tick all those KPIs dude that's sure to get the job done.

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