[COM] Victoria Park Redevelopment

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Omicron
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#91 Post by Omicron » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:17 am

Clr Yarwood wrote:Don’t believe everything you read…a few facts – its not 11 months a year – it’s a week over 5 months. 11 months is just this year and most of that is section at a time bitumen and concrete footings – the headline was not only dumb, but incorrect.

Furthermore anyone that thinks the ACC members are recalcitrants are spending more time moaning than they are doing their homework. 5 of the councillors (inc myself) are 40 years old or less and very progressive.

The others are highly intelligent, experienced and imaginative people able to listen and learn with an average age around 55…hardly old!

“Ho really” is right…it was NEVER a grandstand and you guys were never going to be invited…none of us were.

$55 million of YOUR taxes for a VIP box for people that pay no local taxes…what the???

Vision, progress, the future? How about let’s stop debating a pile of seats for a 4 day V8 race and talk about the Government investing in infrastructure that supports sustainable living and affordable Gen Y housing options.

Gen Y cannot afford to buy a house and the ice caps are melting and some people suggest the State Government should blow $55 mill on a grandstand for a business that is making good profits…hmmmm…am I missing something?

The parklands will be there 100’s years after the race has come and gone…real vision is about appreciating that one day when the world’s population is 9 billion plus Adelaide will have one of the best open space networks of any city in the world.

Vic Park? More like where is the tram going Mike Rann?
In this day and age, no event the size of the Clipsal 500 can exist without the support of large-scale sponsorship and corporate investment - by extension, facilities dedicated to the enjoyment of people in so-called 'big business'. To use the argument that the sole users of this pit-lane facility will be from other states/countries and therefore not subject to South Australian taxes implies that their presence is not beneficial to the prosperity of South Australia. Such an argument assumes two things - that visitors to all events within the ACC jurisdiction directly contribute funds to the advantage of South Australians, and that business and payroll taxes of South Australian residents and businesses are the lone sources of revenue for the South Australian government.

Are we to assume that all visitors to the Festival and Fringe, for example, are residents of South Australia, who in turn pay South Australian stamp duty, South Australian car registration, are paid only in South Australia, and spend money only in South Australia for the benefit of solely South Australian-owned businesses? The argument that Clipsal visitors are not South Australians and therefore not contributing to our profitability is a fallacy. Our wine and food are consumed; our human resources are utilised; our city is advertised through personal experience by visiting executives, employees and companies - these are not just advantages to those employed at the Clipsal for any given year, but those who can further the salience of South Australia as a worthwhile investment for the future. It is important to note that the temporary grandstand appears equally oriented towards corporate facilities, so I ask again - what advantage beyond its eventual deconstruction does a temporary grandstand offer over the defeated permanent alternative?

It is clear that both assumptions are not absolute. Increased state tax revenue is determined by employment, business confidence, Federal Government policy, et. al. Additional employment results from, among other things, additional business investment - often the result of large-scale events like the Clipsal 500 acting as the catalyst for negotiation and commitment from businesses seeking additional locations or headquarters. This, in turn, results in a larger number of people earning a larger income, contributing to an increase in employment, business confidence and consumer spending. Similarly, businesspeople with positive experiences as a result of their time at the Clipsal 500 are more likely to hold a positive view of Adelaide - while it seems inappropriate, business investment is frequently determined by such subjective measures.

In addition, the $55 million cost for a permanent structure is a one-off investment - its value cannot be compared to a temporary structure until the expected lifespan of a permanent building is compared to the cumulative cost of the construction of a temporary grandstand. If the $600,000 figure is to be believed for the annual construction/demolition of a temporary grandstand, then one must first determine the expected recurrence of the temporary structure. If we assume the permanent grandstand shall never come to fruition and the temporary grandstand is to be required indefinitely, that single-year value of a temporary structure erected every year is called into question. I for one would expect a permanent structure to last at least 25 years; similarly, I would expect the annual expense of the construction of a temporary structure (particularly via wage increases) to rise dramatically in the future. In other words, the value of a temporary structure cannot be determined until construction cost increases and lifespan is factored into the annual expense over the event's projected duration.

Similarly, if the usefulness of a permanent grandstand is called into question, then we must first discuss the usefulness of a temporary structure. Given the SAJC's desertion of Victoria Park, the temporary grandstand has no use beyond the four days of Clipsal 500 activity. Assuming Clr. Yarwood's claim that construction and removal time of 5 months is accurate, it is not remotely acceptable that a structure utilised for only four days requires a 5 month construction period, especially given the permanent proposal was earmarked for usage by the SAJC for horse-racing outside of the Clipsal 500 as well as various conventions that could make use of the facilities. We must demand further analysis of how the facilities can be utilised throughout the year before an appropriate resolution can be reached as to whether or not a permanent grandstand is most suitable.

To be perfectly honest, I am concerned that the appropriate issues were not publicly discussed in the context of Victoria Park. I am concerned that more attention was not focused upon seeking out year-long usage for the building beyond horse and motor racing through successful interior design, achieving appropriate public access for Victoria Park throughout the year, or seeking out alternate styles for the external views. I am concerned that the approved temporary structure addresses very few of the concerns aimed at the proposed permanent structure. Above all, I am concerned that so many questions continue to exist after the ACC considers this issue to be resolved, as implied by its approval of the temporary grandstand.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#92 Post by Ho Really » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:33 am

Thank you for your input Clr Yarwood. And how about Omicron, what a mouthful! :D

Cheers
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#93 Post by cruel_world00 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:08 pm

Completely agree with Omicron's post.

I for one see it in a quite simple way, which may not be entirely correct or a shared view, however.

Not everything created with SA tax payer's money will be used for all of SA tax payer's use. For example, the Northern Expressway, I will almost certainly never use this piece of infrastructure, sure it's not exclusively for the use of those within the Northern suburbs but it will basically be there for them and freight usage. I think what Omicron said about the value of corporate dollars cannot be underestimated, plus a lot of the time the government attempts to include the general public in different ways (albeit on a small scale) within the corporate area,i.e, last year I was a guest of the government's corporate box due to being a volunteer at a community radio station etc.

$55million is a lot of dosh, but at the end of the day, I would rather see developments that will spur Adelaide on, rather than talk-fests that result in sub par facilities. I do feel that they should have been looking at ways to incorporate more than just horse racing and motor sport into the grandstand, and also look at making some of the proposed grandstand oriented towards the general public.

I know what I have written may be silly to some, but oh well.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#94 Post by Wayno » Thu May 01, 2008 2:49 pm

Backflip of the year

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 232598.htm
Parliament rejects Vic Park bill
An Opposition bill to allow a permanent redevelopment of Victoria Park in Adelaide's east parklands has been defeated.

Opposition leader Martin Hamilton-Smith told State Parliament the bill would enable the parklands site to be redeveloped in line with the Government's original plan for a new grandstand.

He claimed the Government opposed the bill because of pressure to have only a temporary grandstand rather than risk losing the seat of Adelaide at the next election.

"It also exposes a government that's prepared to talk tough but when the going gets tough they go weak at the knees," he said.

Treasurer Kevin Foley now says he was wrong to seek a permanent new grandstand.

He says the Opposition bill would have trampled on the interests of people living near Victoria Park.

"If you want a member for Adelaide who will trample over the people of Adelaide you vote for Martin Hamilton-Smith, the leader of the Liberal Party. Simple choice," he said.
One extreme to the other. Maybe Foley has a bi-polar mental condition?
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#95 Post by Shuz » Thu May 01, 2008 3:15 pm

What is it with Foley? Someone give him a right sense of mind will they!? Christsakes...

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#96 Post by omada » Thu May 01, 2008 3:44 pm

Article from today's Advertiser:
SAJC in Vic Park clean-up row

A DISPUTE over who is responsible for cleaning up dilapidated buildings at Victoria Park has erupted between the South Australian Jockey Club and Adelaide City Council.
SAJC chief executive officer Steven Ploubidis yesterday claimed the club was not responsible for removing unsightly buildings that were constructed to cater for horse racing at the site, following its termination of the park lease.

"The lease is very old and it is not as clear as the council would hope it would be and we will only be fulfilling our obligations as per the interpretation of the lease," Mr Ploubidis said.

"At this stage we are not convinced we have an obligation to remove the buildings."

Mr Ploubidis also questioned why the council required a a full environmental impact assesment of the inside of the ractrack where ambulances drove during horse races saying any oil spilled on the ground was not necessarily the club's responsibility.

"Last year we had about six meetings, by eight races which was about 100 minutes of vehicles," he said.

"Then you have the Clipsal race which has got all sorts of semi-trailers and forklifts and tow trucks there for days.

"That is very minor but just sits in the Monty Python approach to the whole lot."


I recall somewhere in this massive thread we have discussed this before - my personal view is that the SAJC should remove all the crappy buildings that have scarred this area for years....

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#97 Post by Ho Really » Thu May 01, 2008 6:06 pm

The Vic Park saga is a real beauty, isn't it? :lol: :cry:

Cheers
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#98 Post by Shuz » Thu May 01, 2008 6:12 pm

It surely can go down in the state's history books. It's this decade's event of the times, just as the State Bank was to the 90's.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#99 Post by Omicron » Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 am

Wayno wrote:Backflip of the year

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 232598.htm
Parliament rejects Vic Park bill
An Opposition bill to allow a permanent redevelopment of Victoria Park in Adelaide's east parklands has been defeated.

Opposition leader Martin Hamilton-Smith told State Parliament the bill would enable the parklands site to be redeveloped in line with the Government's original plan for a new grandstand.

He claimed the Government opposed the bill because of pressure to have only a temporary grandstand rather than risk losing the seat of Adelaide at the next election.

"It also exposes a government that's prepared to talk tough but when the going gets tough they go weak at the knees," he said.

Treasurer Kevin Foley now says he was wrong to seek a permanent new grandstand.

He says the Opposition bill would have trampled on the interests of people living near Victoria Park.

"If you want a member for Adelaide who will trample over the people of Adelaide you vote for Martin Hamilton-Smith, the leader of the Liberal Party. Simple choice," he said.
One extreme to the other. Maybe Foley has a bi-polar mental condition?
All I can say is this:
Omicron wrote:I'm just confused as to why a permanent grandstand was rejected, but a temporary structure was approved that shares essentially the same problems (voiced so forcefully by certain council members) of size, location away from Fullarton Rd, limited usage beyond the Clipsal, limited seating for non-corporate audiences et. al., especially given the sole advantage of a temporary structure (that it can be removed) will not be fully realised for several years until the construction crew gain the necessary experience.
Might I add, Mr. Foley - don't patronise me with such disgracefully simplistic comments as 'If you want a member for Adelaide who will trample over the people of Adelaide you vote for Martin Hamilton-Smith, the leader of the Liberal Party. Simple choice.'.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#100 Post by monotonehell » Fri May 02, 2008 9:39 am

Omicron wrote:Might I add, Mr. Foley - don't patronise me with such disgracefully simplistic comments as 'If you want a member for Adelaide who will trample over the people of Adelaide you vote for Martin Hamilton-Smith, the leader of the Liberal Party. Simple choice.'.
I wish Messrs Foley and Rann would stop saying such blatantly stupid things like that. The only statement of that kind that you can categorically make is: "If you want a Labor govt vote for Rann, and if you want a Liberal govt vote for MHS." But even that's wrong because the only people who get to vote for Premier are the members of govt. We just get to vote for our representatives. ;)
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#101 Post by Clr Yarwood » Fri May 02, 2008 1:51 pm

This all goes to show you how weird this whole thing really is...a brilliant example of politics at its best (or worst!).
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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#102 Post by muzzamo » Fri May 02, 2008 2:05 pm

I keep telling you people it all comes down to a combination of Jane Lomax Smith and her rumored threat to resign over the issue and a subsequent reluctance by Rann to risk loosing the seat of Adelaide.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#103 Post by Düsseldorfer » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:56 am

from Adelaide now

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html
MATT WILLIAMS

August 28, 2008 08:45pm

VICTORIA Park will become "one of the great urban parks of the world" under a new multimillion-dollar plan to redevelop the site, Lord Mayor Michael Harbison has vowed.

In the latest instalment of the long-running Victoria Park saga, The Advertiser can today reveal Adelaide City Council's master plan for the 72 ha parklands site.

Tipped to cost up to $8 million, it involves four precincts including walking and bike trails, wetlands, community recreation, 14 sports fields for football, hockey, soccer and cricket, a new plaza and refurbishing the heritage grandstand.

Mr Harbison said yesterday the size of Victoria Park gave the council great scope to develop what will become a "people's park".

"This is a chance for us to create one of the great urban parks of the world because of its enormous panoramic vista with the Adelaide Hills on one side and the city on the other," he said.

Two of the world's most famous urban parks are Central Park in New York and Hyde Park in London.

Over the past four years, Victoria Park has been the subject of enormous community debate on whether to build a permanent grandstand there. In that time, the council has both endorsed and rejected proposals for a permanent structure before compromising on a $20 million temporary grandstand earlier this year.

PDF document: See the full plans for Victoria Park here http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/pdfi ... iapark.pdf

Work on the new Victoria Park plan began earlier this year when the State Government's plan to build a $55 million permanent grandstand was rejected by the council after fierce lobbying from opponents.

Mr Harbison said the newest plan would "offer much more than an empty grandstand" for most of the year while embracing the new infrastructure for the annual Clipsal 500 event. The parklands plan will be presented to the Adelaide Park Lands Authority on Tuesday and released for public consultation on September 11.

Construction is likely to start before the end of the year, when non-heritage buildings are demolished around Victoria Park.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#104 Post by cruel_world00 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:01 am

I was just reading over the PDF.

Awe inspiring stuff from the ACC...let's turn parklands.....into...well, PARKLANDS.


""This is a chance for us to create one of the great urban parks of the world because of its enormous panoramic vista with the Adelaide Hills on one side and the city on the other," he said.
Two of the world's most famous urban parks are Central Park in New York and Hyde Park in London."

Oh no they DIDN'T!

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[COM] Re: Victoria Park

#105 Post by omada » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:12 am

I think it's great news, i'd like to see a sports ground right in front of the heritage grandstand, be a great way to see some local cricket on a Saturday..

we will finally be rid of all those shitty SAJC buildings.. they treated the place disgracefully, good riddance to them!

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