Sensational-Adelaide.com

Howie wrote:I thought the railyards in the city was crown land? I think a city stadium and entertainment precinct on the railyards could still work if you didn't proceed with the west lakes tram link, sold AAMI, and rebuilt RAH on site. If they wanted, they could hire me and i'll show them how they could do it at roughly the same cost

There seems to be this theory that creating a tram line at West Lakes prohibits a stadium being built anywhere else. Semaphore is getting a tram line, Port Adelaide is getting a tram line, Glenelg already has one. So why can't West Lakes get one independently of whether a stadium is there or not? Admittedly the stadium being there is no doubt a contributing reason for West Lakes to get one but I don't see why it means the stadium must stay there forever. Take away the stadium and West Lakes is still no less deserving than Semaphore of a tram line.

Once you take AAMI stadium out of the equation though, the West Lakes tram line will be competing with other major Western Suburb interchanges (e.g. Arndale Interchange, which handles much greater number of passengers than West Lakes and wouldn't be easier to branch off from a Port Road line).

crawf wrote:I thought you were against the idea of rebuilding the RAH on site?

On-site is better than Railyards IMO. The railyards is where the future of our city lies.

Howie wrote:thought the railyards in the city was crown land? I think a city stadium and entertainment precinct on the railyards could still work if you didn't proceed with the west lakes tram link, sold AAMI, and rebuilt RAH on site.

Agree. Any Money spent on Football Park and simply a,"Spur rail/tram line", to West Lakes is a waste of money and a wasted opportunity for the Whole of Adelaide..

Although I'm happy to see that finally money has been ear marked for public transport in Adelaide.. It's about time..

I just don't like the idea going back into a state bank style debt.. Here's hoping this so called,"Minning boom", does kick in pretty soon to fund some of these projects??

My vision is to do away with the West Lakes line and Footy Park upgrade, continue the tram line on past a New Multi purpose City stadium on the old rail yards site, a revamped Entertainment Centre and on to Port Adelaide and Semaphore and electrify the train network. Bring Adelaide back up to speed with the rest of Australia...

This would -
1) Increase our chances of hosting World Cup Soccer matches,
2) Bring people back into the city, flow on effects are obvious (restaurants, clubs, pubs, hotels, concerts, shows, etc),
3) Increase patronage on public transport,
4) Further revitalise Port Adelaide together with construction already underway there,
5) Make it more convenient for people to get to the Entertainment centre because frankly its poorly located anyway

This could all be funded over successive years/budgets by the Federal and State Governments as well as public/private partnerships and hopefully with the increased revenue from the above mentioned Minning Boom..

Howie wrote:Once you take AAMI stadium out of the equation though, the West Lakes tram line will be competing with other major Western Suburb interchanges (e.g. Arndale Interchange, which handles much greater number of passengers than West Lakes and wouldn't be easier to branch off from a Port Road line).

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult but that still doesn't explain to me why West Lakes (even without a stadium) would be less deserving of a tram than Semaphore.

MHS whinging has sunk to a new level, Clearly he's not appeased by the fact that its Labor thats delivering all these 'revolutionary' projects and not himself. I think he would score more votes if he actually applauded the Goverment's capability and vision to match his 'election promise', but constructively criticise on the negative points to such endevours. I also found it absolutely disgraceful that his 'voting margin' is only directed at northern and southern residents, when western and eastern residents have just as much place in Adelaide to the rest. I'll expect a significant shift in his approval rating, favouring Rann overwhelmingly.

Shuz wrote:I'll expect a significant shift in his approval rating, favouring Rann overwhelmingly.

I wouldn't????????? How long has Labor been in?? Why has it taken until now for Rann and his party of clowns to finally come up with something?

The Adelaide public transport system has been ayling for years and its fair to say that over the past say 20 years both parties have neglected it for it to become the discgrace that it is today... Its just election spin, thats all... Blind Freddy can see that????

Anyone of us could stand there too and promise the world with 2 BILLION dollars but at the end of the day, all these promises have to be funded and from what I can see this can only be done by plundging the state into further debt and relying on a so called,"Minning Boom", that hasn't even occured yet???????????????

I agree the transport system does need a major overhall. The network does need to be electrifing, there needs to be more and newer train, trams and buses and the lines, stations and stops do need upgrading. Foley and Rann and just doing what everyones else knows should of been done years ago?

Really it shouldn't be any surprise. As far As I'm concerned, it's just over due. This election race has just begun.... I wouldn't be counting my chickens if I was Rann just yet? If I could clearly see the money there to back up his promises he would have every reason to feel confident, but I dont? All I see, like a lot of other voters is further STATE ECONOMIC DEBT.......

Tyler_Durden wrote:Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult but that still doesn't explain to me why West Lakes (even without a stadium) would be less deserving of a tram than Semaphore.

I know you're not trying to be difficult, and I do see your point. There are alot of communities that would be well serviced by a tramline. But without an AAMI stadium the case for a tram line to West Lakes is diminished, while a tram to Semaphore would be a logical progression of a Port Adelaide tramline as geographically they're roughly in the same area and I would imagine the patronage between Port and Semaphore would be pretty high.

Shuz wrote:MHS whinging has sunk to a new level, Clearly he's not appeased by the fact that its Labor thats delivering all these 'revolutionary' projects and not himself. I think he would score more votes if he actually applauded the Goverment's capability and vision to match his 'election promise', but constructively criticise on the negative points to such endevours. I also found it absolutely disgraceful that his 'voting margin' is only directed at northern and southern residents, when western and eastern residents have just as much place in Adelaide to the rest. I'll expect a significant shift in his approval rating, favouring Rann overwhelmingly.

Put it this way Shuz, without a healthy opposition (and groups like ours, AdelaideNow, RailSA etc) putting pressure on Pat Conlon to fix the transport system this wouldn't have been done (at least not in this budget). Although the Liberal vision for Adelaide goes a step further and puts the emphasis of entertainment back into the city.. and in this regard this Budget hasn't delivered on that. Sure I think Rann has gained some brownie points, but Entertainment in a CBD direly needing it will need to be address again before the 2010 Election.

You can quote me on this in two years time.. but I believe Vibrancy in the CBD I believe will be the determining factor in the 2010 Election. There has been a big build-up over the past two decades, a huge momentum is gathering, and it's the reason why sites like this exist.

I believe Howie reeeeally believes vibrancy in the city is a must, I believe *tongue firmly in cheek*

I appreciate your insight into the issue Howie, but I concur to your point. Fairly said, I think we'll agree to disagree that the majority of voters will put thier decision down to a vibrant CBD. Evidently, some will - thats a given, as I fear that peoples incapability to understand that such things take time, and are being brainwashed under the Liberal's 'Happy Meal' approach to politics and pro-development organisations influence - which seems ironic - nonetheless, I still believe that Adelaidians are not going to put thier vote down to a vibrant city centre, but for a state that moves forward with investment into its infrastructure. The Rann Government has done part of its work, and for it to eventuate, they need to be able to continue so with a win at the polls in 2010 and 2014. If they continue to promote their message as strongly as they have and they can, they will secure another Rannslide. The rewards are yet to come, in those years ahead - It is then, that Adelaide and SA will truly have achieved a infrastructure 'nirvana'.

For those of you who don't understand what I mean by "Happy Meal" approach - its cheap, nasty and half-baked and disgusting.

Unfortunately I haven't had any time to catch up with all the things that were announced in the budget, but was there anything for a rail extension to Seaford and beyond? I would think that a tram line to the Entertainment Centre and Port Adelaide is not as important (or prioritised) as public transport to those southern suburbs. Do you guys agree? I think Rann and his mates have failed on this and if MHS picks this up he'll do well. I live in the east and I'm not selfish, to me the northern and southern suburbs are just as important, so give them what they deserve, better transport!

Cheers

While there have been no funding committments for actual track/rollingstock beyond Noarlunga Centre at this point, the reservation beyond Noarlunga Centre is being retained down to Seaford. However, in this budget, money has been set aside to buy up a land corridor beyond Seaford to Aldinga. In the AdelaideMetro pdf document that Norman showed to me, there is a timetline and it stated that the Government hope to have the reservation to Aldinga purchased under the name of the DTEI by 2012.

Paulns wrote:

Shuz wrote:I'll expect a significant shift in his approval rating, favouring Rann overwhelmingly.

I wouldn't????????? How long has Labor been in?? Why has it taken until now for Rann and his party of clowns to finally come up with something?

The Adelaide public transport system has been ayling for years and its fair to say that over the past say 20 years both parties have neglected it for it to become the discgrace that it is today... Its just election spin, thats all... Blind Freddy can see that????

Anyone of us could stand there too and promise the world with 2 BILLION dollars but at the end of the day, all these promises have to be funded and from what I can see this can only be done by plundging the state into further debt and relying on a so called,"Minning Boom", that hasn't even occured yet???????????????

I agree the transport system does need a major overhall. The network does need to be electrifing, there needs to be more and newer train, trams and buses and the lines, stations and stops do need upgrading. Foley and Rann and just doing what everyones else knows should of been done years ago?

Really it shouldn't be any surprise. As far As I'm concerned, it's just over due. This election race has just begun.... I wouldn't be counting my chickens if I was Rann just yet? If I could clearly see the money there to back up his promises he would have every reason to feel confident, but I dont? All I see, like a lot of other voters is further STATE ECONOMIC DEBT.......

You have contradicted yourself in your flawed arguement. In the first half of your arguement you state "Why has it taken until now for Rann and his party of clowns to finally come up with something? "

but you end your arguement complaining about the extra "STATE ECONOMIC DEBT"

The bottom half of your post explains why it took Rann and his 'clowns' until now to announce the electrification of the rail system. They did not do it before because we had a weaker economy and simply could not afford it. They announced it this year, because as a state we are now in a position to afford it. Before, such spending would have been irresponsible.

Shuz wrote:I appreciate your insight into the issue Howie, but I concur to your point. Fairly said, I think we'll agree to disagree that the majority of voters will put thier decision down to a vibrant CBD.

I think you are probably correct. If Adelaideans were that desperate for a vibrant city centre, they would already be making more effort to use the city when they can which would make it more vibrant. It is something that the people can do themselves without the need for government intervention.

If presented with the option of having a more vibrant city centre most people would passively support it, but I don't believe it would be foremost on the majority of peoples minds.

A good portion of Adelaideans would rarely if ever even go into the city. And let's not forget all the country voters who make up a reasonable portion of the vote.

The opposition seem to already have decided to attack the government on what they call a city-centric budget (not cbd as such but metro Adelaide). If anything there is more liklihood of an election being fought on rural issues, in my opinion.

Anyway, the biggest weapon in the fight to create a more vibrant city centre is the people of Adelaide. Their presence in the city is what is going to make it so.

Tyler, you presented your point well, thanks.