Toll Roads in Adelaide

[UrbanSG]

We pay taxes and registration for a reason, although you wonder what it is all spent on sometimes!

There have been huge problems interstate with private companies getting involved in infrastructure provision. For example in Sydney private companies required the Government to agree to no upgrades or service increases for nearby public transport networks to try and maximise the use of their roads to make a buck.

Toll roads in Adelaide would not work all that well imo. Adelaide has a large number of arterial roads leading to and from the CBD in all directions. If a toll was introduced say on South Road most people would try to use Goodwood, Marion and Brighton Roads or Port Road, Torrens Road, Churchill Road etc. In other Australian cities there are not as many large arterial roads leading to and from the CBD's.

At the end of the day Governments should be responsibile for providing this infrastructure, especially in a small city like Adelaide where toll road use would likely be much lower.

[Mr Smith]

I listened to Rod Hook this morning on 891 and the points he made were logical and pragmatic. The man seems to call it like it is and unlike politicians, actually thinks long term. Contrast his considered views to the typically patronising response of the minister, viz, 'whilst tolls are an interesting philosophical debate, it currently has no practical purpose here, given the road funding we have already committed in this term of Government,"
Vicky Chapman, who followed Rod Hook, was equally evassive and provided little confidence that the Liberal Party will address the issue with transparently either.
People need to get real here. The current approach of using public funds to undertake road projects on South Road in isolation means the corridor is unlikley to be 'free flowing' for another 10+ years. Couple this with the current economic climate and rapidly escalating debt state, courtesy of an incompetent state government, and alternative funding solutions, including tolls, need to be part of the discussion.

[Waewick]

for me, the toll would have to be on new roads

or significant improvements on others but as people have outlined, I just can't see the demand.

basically what Mr Hook is saying is that we won't be getting funding any time soon unless we get some strong economic and population growth happening over the next 10 years.

[mutt]

perhaps northern expressway and south road superway could've been toll roads as they are/were primarily constructed for commercial traffic
however whilst taxes continue to spiral along with the costs of essential services i wouldnt like to see further costs added to the daily commute

where competition is not feasible I don't like to see privatisation (eg water, electricity and gas wholesaling etc and arterial roads where there are no alternatives). It usually results in a net loss for consumers.

[Splashmo]

The Superway would never have worked as a toll road, because it's far too short and runs right over a perfectly adequate stretch of road. But maybe a full-length South Road conversion would work as a toll road.

[Aidan]

What are people's thoughts on the argument for and against tolls? and ideas for future tolled roads?

There are two mistakes NSW and Victoria have made that we must always avoid: using tolls as an excuse to avoid public transport improvements and setting tolls so low that the tollway becomes congested. Conversely we should also avoid NSW's other mistake of setting tolls too high.

As for future tolled road possibilities, I can think of six:

1) from the freeway (near the tollgate) under Glen Osmond Road, East parklands, Northcote Terrace, NE Rd and Hampstead Road, emerging onto MN Rd at Pooraka
2) Morphett Rd to Adelaide Airport to Findon Rd. Could later be extended S to (what would become) the junction of Majors and Southeren, and N to Port Rd and possibly Eastern Bypass.
3) Under S parklands and Richmond Rd, connecting tollways 1 and 2
4) Starting on Lower NE Rd, also connecting tollways 1 and 2 via North Adelaide parklands.
5) Southern Expressway extension to McLaren Vale Junction on Victor Harbor Rd (bridging Onkaparinga Gorge)
6) Northern Expressway direct to Outer Harbour (requiring deep tunnel or very high bridge).

None are likely to be financially viable any t me soon, but all could be very usefulwhen we're a city of 2 million or more.

[[Shuz]]

Im all for toll roads.

[Waewick]

so is this really the time for the State Government to improve public transport under the guise of not wanting toll roads?

an easier sell I would have thought?

[ChillyPhilly]

What are people's thoughts on the argument for and against tolls? and ideas for future tolled roads?

There are two mistakes NSW and Victoria have made that we must always avoid: using tolls as an excuse to avoid public transport improvements and setting tolls so low that the tollway becomes congested. Conversely we should also avoid NSW's other mistake of setting tolls too high.

As for future tolled road possibilities, I can think of six:

1) from the freeway (near the tollgate) under Glen Osmond Road, East parklands, Northcote Terrace, NE Rd and Hampstead Road, emerging onto MN Rd at Pooraka
2) Morphett Rd to Adelaide Airport to Findon Rd. Could later be extended S to (what would become) the junction of Majors and Southeren, and N to Port Rd and possibly Eastern Bypass.
3) Under S parklands and Richmond Rd, connecting tollways 1 and 2
4) Starting on Lower NE Rd, also connecting tollways 1 and 2 via North Adelaide parklands.
5) Southern Expressway extension to McLaren Vale Junction on Victor Harbor Rd (bridging Onkaparinga Gorge)
6) Northern Expressway direct to Outer Harbour (requiring deep tunnel or very high bridge).

None are likely to be financially viable any t me soon, but all could be very usefulwhen we're a city of 2 million or more.

Love the suggestions. But sadly SA won't have the balls to do anything of this ilk for years to come - at best.

[muzzamo]

To me it's all about price signaling. You need to tell people thatif they are going to commute daily in their SUV by themselves from aldinga to the CBD, they need to pay for it. The "we already pay enough taxes" (rego, excise etc) used above is not valid. In the case above, they would be driving on an extremely expensive road (south road will take about ten billion to fix) during peak hour and they also need to pay for the congestion they are causing to other road users eg slowing down trucks and the effect on the economy. The state simply can not afford the huge costs of allowing them to continue doing this.

These people would argue that they need to drive, public transport sucks or is nonexistent, well once the proper price signals are in place, it would encourage people to think twice before living out there if it doesn't suit in the first place. we have then removed a car from the roads.

If people still want to continue this sort of lifestyle then they are still allowed to, nobody is stopping them but they need to pay $100 a week or so in tolls for the privilege.

[Will]

These people would argue that they need to drive, public transport sucks or is nonexistent, well once the proper price signals are in place, it would encourage people to think twice before living out there if it doesn't suit in the first place. we have then removed a car from the roads.

If people still want to continue this sort of lifestyle then they are still allowed to, nobody is stopping them but they need to pay $100 a week or so in tolls for the privilege.

People do not live out in the outer suburbs because they want to. They do it because that is the only place they can afford to live in. Your suggestion would be an additional burden on those doing it the toughest.

(And no, most people are not hipsters who think that a 35m2 apartment with no carpark is a serious place to live)

[Waewick]

These people would argue that they need to drive, public transport sucks or is nonexistent, well once the proper price signals are in place, it would encourage people to think twice before living out there if it doesn't suit in the first place. we have then removed a car from the roads.

If people still want to continue this sort of lifestyle then they are still allowed to, nobody is stopping them but they need to pay $100 a week or so in tolls for the privilege.

People do not live out in the outer suburbs because they want to. They do it because that is the only place they can afford to live in. Your suggestion would be an additional burden on those doing it the toughest.

(And no, most people are not hipsters who think that a 35m2 apartment with no carpark is a serious place to live)

what a crock

people live in the outer suburbs because they get cheap subsidised land and utilities, it is a mentality that has driven unsustainable growth in these areas and driven up the costs of infrastructure for the greater community - something we all have to pay for.

I'm sick of hearing that these people "are doing it the toughest" rubbish as well, honestly it is getting old very quickly., many people in the outer suburbs are on big wages with low cost bases and are on easy street - I know many people in the inner city doing it tough as well.

Finally your crude remark about hispters honestly we are not on adelaidenow, so lets keep the ridiculous comments to a minimum

[Will]

These people would argue that they need to drive, public transport sucks or is nonexistent, well once the proper price signals are in place, it would encourage people to think twice before living out there if it doesn't suit in the first place. we have then removed a car from the roads.

If people still want to continue this sort of lifestyle then they are still allowed to, nobody is stopping them but they need to pay $100 a week or so in tolls for the privilege.

People do not live out in the outer suburbs because they want to. They do it because that is the only place they can afford to live in. Your suggestion would be an additional burden on those doing it the toughest.

(And no, most people are not hipsters who think that a 35m2 apartment with no carpark is a serious place to live)

what a crock

people live in the outer suburbs because they get cheap subsidised land and utilities, it is a mentality that has driven unsustainable growth in these areas and driven up the costs of infrastructure for the greater community - something we all have to pay for.

I'm sick of hearing that these people "are doing it the toughest" rubbish as well, honestly it is getting old very quickly., many people in the outer suburbs are on big wages with low cost bases and are on easy street - I know many people in the inner city doing it tough as well.

Finally your crude remark about hispters honestly we are not on adelaidenow, so lets keep the ridiculous comments to a minimum

OK then, so people prefer to live in places like Andrews Farm and Munno Para over inner city suburbs because they choose to.

So the fact that they can get a 3 bedroom house for around $300 000 in those suburbs over a similar house for $600 000 (or more) closer to the city has no role whatsoever in them buying there?

[Waewick]

no doubt, but the cost of land should be significantly higher - or atleast the component includes the cost increases infrastructure (i.e upgraded roads to get there, peak power issues) should be a cost.

wouldn't we prefer to drive the cost of inner city or near city land and houses down, rather than ever expanding the waistline of the city and pushing up the additional costs?

I could also make an argument, to why, depsite having to pay extra to live where I live (in terms of house price), have to fork out more in taxes to provide improved services to those who benefit from lower housing costs?

the infrastructure in my area hasn't be upgraded in 100 years yet I pay higher everything to benefit others.

One day the outer suburbs will have to pay a fair cost for the burden they have created and take it off people like me.

it simply is not fair.

[rev]

These people would argue that they need to drive, public transport sucks or is nonexistent, well once the proper price signals are in place, it would encourage people to think twice before living out there if it doesn't suit in the first place. we have then removed a car from the roads.

If people still want to continue this sort of lifestyle then they are still allowed to, nobody is stopping them but they need to pay $100 a week or so in tolls for the privilege.

People do not live out in the outer suburbs because they want to. They do it because that is the only place they can afford to live in. Your suggestion would be an additional burden on those doing it the toughest.

(And no, most people are not hipsters who think that a 35m2 apartment with no carpark is a serious place to live)

what a crock

people live in the outer suburbs because they get cheap subsidised land and utilities, it is a mentality that has driven unsustainable growth in these areas and driven up the costs of infrastructure for the greater community - something we all have to pay for.

I'm sick of hearing that these people "are doing it the toughest" rubbish as well, honestly it is getting old very quickly., many people in the outer suburbs are on big wages with low cost bases and are on easy street - I know many people in the inner city doing it tough as well.

Finally your crude remark about hispters honestly we are not on adelaidenow, so lets keep the ridiculous comments to a minimum

So we should all cram into tin cans like the Japanese and everyone from kids to the elderly can be depressed in their tin cans? All so we don't have sprawl?

Many people in the outer suburbs might be on big wages, but they are also young and can't afford a home for $500,000+.
They are on "easy street"(as you perceive it) because they chose to buy a cheaper home further out. Their monthly mortgage repayments are less, so are their council rates.

Btw, on topic, I'm all for toll roads, if they are actual freeway-type roads, that actually get me somewhere quicker with no or very minimal interruptions along the route.
If paying a few dollars to use such roads for that convenience is what it will take, then go for it. So long as there are limitations to what they can charge, and we are not forced into using these routes.

Muzzamos post is even more ridiculous.