News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

[drsmith]

The section or road in question looks like it had sealed shoulders sufficient for cyclist use.

[rev]

Will some of you listen now to what I'm saying?

“We had seen a group of bikes in the left lane and I was a bit worried about them because a four-wheel drive had to come into our lane onto oncoming traffic at 100km/h to get around them, that’s how far out on the road they were,” she said.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... bfa5c00f48

One cyclist dead, 2 more injured.

These are the sort of arrogant selfish rude inconsiderate people riding push bikes on our roads who are a danger to everyone including them selves, that I'm complaining about in this thread.
People getting killed because of their arrogance and selfishness, is what I've said will happen. And looky here, that's what's happened.

But some of you still wont get it through your heads that this sort of behavior does not belong on public roads.
And some, like Bits, will bury their heads in the sand and pretend the behavior that got the cyclist killed and 2 of his mates injured, doesn't even happen(despite it happening every day).

If you can't get around them without driving into oncoming traffic then maybe you should slow down and wait until it's safe... just a thought

It's absolutely bloody laughable that some of you actually think it's the motorists fault.
The cyclists were breaking the law. Because as I've been saying for a while some in the cycling community think they are in a god damn tour event doing pelotons on public roads.
That's why this one idiot was killed and his two idiot mates injured.
Because they are morons who have no respect for other road users and think they are invincible.


How about cyclists like these three idiots involved in this crash do the bloody right thing?...just a thought.

[rev]

The section or road in question looks like it had sealed shoulders sufficient for cyclist use.

Shhh, don't point out the obvious of the cyclists doing the wrong thing on public roads.

According to the random accounts that have started posting recently it's a myth only car drivers do the wrong thing.
Cars are evil. Bikes are good.


Today I might try driving on the footpath. Because apparently cyclists can do as they want and the random accounts that have come back to life to troll in arguments think it's ok and everyone is to blame anyways. So why the hell not hey?

Share the roads and all that.
Well I want to drive on the footpath.
I don't give a shit that I'm a danger to other footpath users(just like cyclists on our roads and funnily enough even on dedicated bike/ped paths), get out of my way and share the footpath with me. YOU will have to give way to me and get out of the way, dive out of the way.
Be patient and mindful. I'm sure it won't delay you by more then 3 seconds to wait for me to pass through.

[rev]

Will some of you listen now to what I'm saying?

“We had seen a group of bikes in the left lane and I was a bit worried about them because a four-wheel drive had to come into our lane onto oncoming traffic at 100km/h to get around them, that’s how far out on the road they were,” she said.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... bfa5c00f48

One cyclist dead, 2 more injured.

These are the sort of arrogant selfish rude inconsiderate people riding push bikes on our roads who are a danger to everyone including them selves, that I'm complaining about in this thread.
People getting killed because of their arrogance and selfishness, is what I've said will happen. And looky here, that's what's happened.

But some of you still wont get it through your heads that this sort of behavior does not belong on public roads.
And some, like Bits, will bury their heads in the sand and pretend the behavior that got the cyclist killed and 2 of his mates injured, doesn't even happen(despite it happening every day).

So you saw this happen? You must have since you seem to have intimate details of what happened that the article doesn't give.

Wow another random account comes back to life.

Clearly what I quoted is from the article.
They were on the road taking up a large part of the lane, hence why a vehicle has to go onto the wrong side of the road to over take them. You know in keeping with the 1m law.

That's what others who were in the area and saw them said. Not me. Read the article troll.

[rev]

And yes, some motorists do the wrong thing.
Does some doing the wrong thing excuse others doing the wrong thing? This is a concept you should have learned in primary school at the latest. But here we are with it needing to be pointed out to you. Maybe I'm making a mistake in assuming I'm talking to at the very least young adults?


There's a difference between a cyclist and motorist doing the wrong thing, and dangerous things.
A cyclist will likely end up dead. See article on the other page as an example.

The roads aren't used by majority cyclists. Cyclists are a minority.
So when you are doing the wrong thing on your bike you are more likely to be killed or injured by a motor vehicle.

Me in my car if I do the wrong thing and crash into another car, depending on a variety of factors in more likely to walk away needing repairs to my car as opposed to a funeral for a cyclist.

My car will absorb far more of the impact then ten of your bikes ever will be. It's designed to absorb the impact.
My car has various safety features that make it safer for me and other motorists in fact.

Your bike has none of the above.
Therefore you would logically think that those riding their bikes on the road would take extra precautions and not take stupid risks or ride like morons. But many do.

When I was a kid and teen when I saw a car coming on the road behind me I would ride onto a footpath.
Now this might come as a shock to some of you and I dare say some may need to call a doctor, but I did so because it was safer and I didn't want to play Russian roulette with my life.

I know right, hard to believe that someone on a bike had the brains and forethought to move out of the way of motoevehciles that could kill him. What was I thinking.

[Nathan]

Sorry, Rev. Whatever tiny bit of credibility you had in your arguments is now gone. What a disgusting bit of victim blaming.

Nowhere in that article is anything to suggest the cyclists were doing anything wrong. There are all kinds of reasons why a cyclist might move away from the hard left, and they are 100% entitled to claim the lane when there is no active bike lane. Even from that quote, it's the 4WD that's in the wrong. It's quite simple, if it's not safe to overtake then you don't. You are not forced to veer into oncoming traffic.

[Llessur2002]

With sensationalist and offensive arguments like that Rev, you should go into politics.

[SCF]

Wow another random account comes back to life.

Clearly what I quoted is from the article.
They were on the road taking up a large part of the lane, hence why a vehicle has to go onto the wrong side of the road to over take them. You know in keeping with the 1m law.

That's what others who were in the area and saw them said. Not me. Read the article troll.

I read the article. All it said was that one witness claimed they saw some cyclists (and not necessarily the cyclists killed/injured) taking up a large part of the road some 20 minutes earlier. There is NOTHING in the article to suggest that the cyclists killed and injured were doing anything illegal, selfish, rude or arrogant at the time of the accident. You have no idea what happened, yet you automatically blame the "idiot" cyclists.

It may well turn out that the cyclists were at fault. But at this time WE DON'T KNOW.

I will note at this time that the truck driver has now been charged with multiple offenses.

[SouthAussie94]

This is from the sa.gov website. Available here - https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transport- ... and-safety. Emphasis is my own.

Road rules

Cyclists must obey all road rules - just like motorists - including stopping at stop signs and traffic lights, riding on the left side of the road and giving way to pedestrians on crossings and at intersections.

The Cycling and the Law 1.2 MB booklet provides details about cyclists' legal rights and obligations in South Australia.


Safety tips for cyclists
Obey the road rules.
Keep to the left and ride at least one metre clear of the kerb and parked cars.
Look for people opening car doors in front of you.
Be seen, during the day wear bright coloured clothing, at night wear light-coloured clothing and use a white front light and red rear light.
Look for other vehicles at intersections - never assume a driver has seen you.
Ride predictably in a straight line and signal your intention to turn or change lanes.
Riding two abreast is legal.
From 25 October 2015 cyclists of all ages are allowed to ride on footpaths



Safety tips for drivers
From 25 October 2015 drivers are required to give a minimum of one metre when passing a cyclist where the speed limit is 60 km/h or less or 1.5 metres where the speed limit is over 60 km/h.
Scan the road for cyclists.
Look for cyclists when turning or entering an intersection and give way as you would for any other vehicle.
Before opening your car door look behind and check blind spots for cyclists.
Do not drive, stop or park in a bicycle lane, you can cross a bicycle lane to turn left, enter private property or park in a parking lane.
Cyclists can legally ride two abreast - be patient as you approach and overtake only when safe.
Give cyclists plenty of room - a minimum of one metre clearance when overtaking.

The section of road where this accident took place has a speed limit of 110km/h. Now, I may not be the best at maths but 110 is definitely greater than 60, therefore car drivers must give 1.5m clearance when overtaking a cyclist.

Now lets take a look at the Augusta Highway


You can see that a lane is approximately 2.2m wide, extrapolating that, the road is 4.4m wide. Happy with that?

Now lets say that a cyclist is 0.3m wide and a car is 2.0m wide. Again, happy?

Now lets say that the cyclist is riding along the road, sitting in the far left of the road, we'll say that he's riding 0.1m from the edge of the road. The cyclist is 0.3m wide, therefore the cyclist is taking up and using 0.4m of the 4.4m road.

Now, Fred comes along in his car, travelling along at 110km/h. Fred is entitled to be there. The cyclist is entitled to be there. They are both entitled to be there.

Now, Fred's car is 2.0m wide and he must allow 1.5m between him and the cyclist when overtaking.

Lets do the maths. The cyclist is occupying the far left 0.4m of the road.

0.4 + 1.5 = 1.9m

The left side of Fred's car must be no closer to the side of the road than 1.9m.

But, Fred's car is 2.0m wide, that means that he would be occupying the section of road between 1.9m and 3.9m from the far left of the road.

But the lane is only 2.2m wide. It looks as if Fred must cross the centre line in order to pass the cyclist safely. As Fred is the one who must cross the centre line, Fred is obligated to ensure that is is safe to actually cross the line.

If Fred crosses the centre line and causes an accident, FRED IS AT FAULT, NOT THE CYCLIST

It is no different to overtaking a slow moving truck whilst in your car. The vehicle who is doing the overtaking and crossing the centre line must not do so unless it is clear of oncoming traffic. If it's not clear, don't overtake!

[mshagg]

But some of you still wont get it through your heads that this sort of behavior does not belong on public roads.

No, we all agree on this point. Apparently, so does the Crown, given that the truck driver has been arrested and charged with one count of causing death by dangerous driving and two counts of causing injury by dangerous driving.

It is criminal behaviour and ignorant people like you continue to normalise it.

[drsmith]

Being the national highway, the traffic lanes would be 3.5m wide (or thereabouts) and the shoulders either 1m or 1.5m wide depending on whether the total seal width is 9m or 10m. Note that the width of the road markings themselves take up some of the overall road width bat that may be augmented in the above image due to limited resolution.

On that stretch of road, cyclists could ride on the sealed shoulder and a 2m wide vehicle could pass within the above law without crossing the centre line(s).

This doesn't apply to heavy transport, but a cyclist with half a brain under those circumstances would get off the road altogether until the truck or road train had passed. This aspect reminds me of when I drove the Stuart Highway to Darwin in the late 80's. The full distance was sealed then but there were still sections in the NT that were the original 12 foot wide seal. Legally, vehicles approaching from opposite directions were required to put their left side wheels in the gravel to pass to avoid crossing the centre line of the road (unmarked). When a road train was coming from the opposite direction however, you got off as you didn't want that putting wheels in the gravel. It wasn't the law but it was obvious common sense.

[rubberman]

The other thing that comes to mind is that in addition to the need for formal competency and knowledge of the road rules testing for cyclists, is the question of whether their behaviours on foothpaths should also be regulated.

For the same reasons that cyclists agitated for the 1 metre rule, there should also be a similar rule for cyclists passing pedestrians on footpaths. Perhaps other rules as well. There should certainly be some monitoring of the situation.

[realstretts]

But some of you still wont get it through your heads that this sort of behavior does not belong on public roads.

No, we all agree on this point. Apparently, so does the Crown, given that the truck driver has been arrested and charged with one count of causing death by dangerous driving and two counts of causing injury by dangerous driving.

It is criminal behaviour and ignorant people like you continue to normalise it.

*drop mic*

[rev]

With sensationalist and offensive arguments like that Rev, you should go into politics.

I'd do a far better job of running this state then some on this forum.


If it was a two car accident, and one car was last seen 20 minutes prior hooning, the same people pretending that cyclists are innocent victims on our roads, would be the first to blame the motorist for hooning.
But I know what's going on here, with all the random accounts that have barely any posts.

[rev]

Now this is nice.
If only Adelaide could get something like this seen in Auckland..