If you want to live in a big, lively booming city......

[Cruise]

Then why not move to one?

I have been pondering this lately, Everyone on this site say they love Adelaide, yet they all want it to change.

So i must ask why?

Can you not leave due to a court ordered ankle bracelet that prevents you from leaving the state or something?

pleas continue....

[frank1]

The people who don't want adelaide to change are just as selfish as the people who want it to. People who say 'why don't you move if you don't like adelaide the way it is' are selfish. They are saying that even if you are born/lived in adelaide your whole life(like me) it's too bad if you want to see a change, move if you don't like it. How about they move if they think adelaide is changing (for the better).

[Hippodamus]

mate, Adelaide isn't the only place where people whinge and complain number one.

and no matter if you are in Adelaide, Melbourne or Brisbane...every city has it's problems and therefore people from each city will always have something to say about making it a better place, whether constructive criticism is used or if it comes from a NIMBY perspective so to speak (pardon my tendancy to put people in two general boxes).

the reality however; is that one of Adelaide's percieved problems which regularly comes up is that it is a 'overgrown country town' depsite it being one of Australia's major capital cities home to 1.1 million people. This criticism is obviously a reflection on government, citizen attitudes, birth rate, immigration levels and the skyline to only mention a few.

Cruise.. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING ADELAIDE. FACT! people are actually leaving Adelaide because many love and see it as a good place; but want it to grow up and change and for a multitude of other reasons also reflected in the aforementioned paragraph. Did you know the South Australian State Government has in the past undertaken initiative to attract ex-SA residents back home... This is (but was more so in the past because currently the economy is doing well) a major problem.

to answer your question: people are leaving and although they love Adelaide, they see it's potential however it gets frustrating when things don't get ahead like they do in other states. whether real or percieved in many cases, this is what is happening. and people are leaving all the time.

[frank1]

The whole adelaide attitude thing is a 'conspiracy' with Nimby's behind it all, so adelaide will remian the way it is.

[Hippodamus]

disagree. don't always blame it on the NIMBY's - yes they are dickheads and are a problem but are not behind the attitude thing at all.

the attitude thing has more likely been developed from people who have a vision of Adelaide becoming a 'melbourne' or 'sydney' so to speak and are pro-growth, but are dissapointed at Adelaide's lack of energy, movement, development (what ever the word) and therefore become cynical and are probably THE CITIY'S WORST DETRIMENT TO REPUTATION...

And my other belief is that it will not remain the way it is. most NIMBY's (although not all of them) are old timing bastards that will drop off by 2030. to say that a cities attitude will forever remain the same is extrememly naive. cities constantly change.. sometimes for the better - sometimes for the worse.

[Wayno]

My desire is to remain near my family - which is here in Adelaide. Sure people gain "experience" and "fresh perspective" by moving interstate or overseas, but the familial cost is high. So it's not unreasonable (nor selfish) for me to desire Adelaide to move into the 21st century.

We travel the world to find what we want, only to return home to find it.

[Cruise]

I am merely being a devil's advocate.

i was just hoping to stir some thoughts, I'm just sick of hearing "Brisbane has this..." "Melbourne has that..." Being a copy cat city is not the answer.

[Snorkie]

Come on Cruise, you know as well as anyone on here that it isnt as easy as packing everything up leaving the next day and moving interstate or overseas. Let me enlighten you a little from someone who is about to leave for London this year.
As you have said, I am one of those people who think that Adelaide is a great place to live, and fairly regularly stick up for it when everyone of my friends is bagging it, but at the same time this city frustrates me so much.

I know, like probably everyone on this site that Adelaide has the potential to become the best and most liveable city in Australia. However in the words of Hippodamus I want it to grow up and change. I think I am guilty of wanting Adelaide to become more like Melbourne or Sydney, however with a character of its own. All I hear from 95% of my friends (well at least those that still live in Adelaide and dont live in Melb, Syd, London etc) is how much they hate Adelaide and how they cant wait live, however all say they are keen on moving back here when they are ready to settle down and start a family.

The reasoning for this distaste towards the city (im only talking from personal experience here within the group of people that I know) is largely due to the lack of activity in the city, lack of job prospects and the view that nothing happens here. Lets face it the majority of 20 y.o (well at least that I know) want great career prospects (which lets face it is much more accessible in the eastern states), a bustling nightlife and weekday activity. To clarify this further, because I know someone will argue with me on this, Adelaide is completely dead Sunday to Thursday night. I work 50 hour weeks and there is nothing more I enjoy than going out after work for beers at a bar, rundle st etc in a bustling atmosphere. But with the exception of the fringe, Adelaide is dead the rest of the year, to the point where about the only thing I can think of, of doing on a weeknight is watching a movie or playing pool. A friday/saturday night isnt much better. I am a relatively fashionable person who loves classy bars/clubs where I can get dressed up and enjoy my vodka fresh lime and blackcurrant juice, but lets face it where can I do that in Adelaide? Every where I go I see fights, and people so drunk they are are throwing up or just being complete and utter dickheads.
Now im not saying that this doesn't happen in other places, but every time I go interstate I tend to avoid these crowds, whereas in Adelaide you simply have to deal with this.

Again I agree with Hippodamus when he says that NIMBYS exist everywhere, but why is it they have so much influnce here? For some reason things just get done in other places. Here NIMBYS have such an influence that it takes 200 reports and 5 years before the government even begins to consider doing something.

So to come back to your original point Cruise, I am leaving the state and moving to London. Why? Firstly, within the next few years none of my good friends will be living in Adelaide anymore, as most have already moved, with the rest plannig to leave soon. Secondly I want to experience big city living, which I cant get in Adelaide (might not be for everyone, but I am a big city person). Thirdly I want to travel Europe and have the option to be able to go out during the week, because watching movies everynight after work aint my idea of fun. Fourthly I want to go and earn more than double of what I am now, and gain overseas experience.

As I said I know Adelaide has the potential, but I dont want to spend 'my best years' waiting for this potential to be realised. This probably sounds selfish, but there is so much out there that I want to see and do that unfortunately I wont be able to experience if I stay in Adelaide my whole life, even though I know I will miss Adelaide, and eventually move back here one day.

Dont know if that flows very well, but hope thats a detailed enough response for you. You can critisice me all you want but this is all my opinion, and what I have experienced in my circle of friends...

[Aidan]

Then why not move to one?

I have been pondering this lately, Everyone on this site say they love Adelaide, yet they all want it to change.

Yes I want Adelaide to change... but I want every city I've been to to change!

Have you ever encountered a city that's already perfect?

[skyliner]

Then why not move to one?

I have been pondering this lately, Everyone on this site say they love Adelaide, yet they all want it to change.

Yes I want Adelaide to change... but I want every city I've been to to change!

Have you ever encountered a city that's already perfect?

Yes Aiden, you are dead right. I have plenty of negativ feelings about Brisbane - only from being here long enough tofind out the problems - infrastructure (very serious), health, water, overcrowding, very high cost of housing and living etc etc.

I know Adelaide has it's own problems as well, but is a far better city to me overall. My biggest gripe was the rail network (loss of much of and condition) and water. I am one of those who have ended up thinking in a comparative way to other places and don't want Adelaide left behind. (In the 1980's it was third largest capital in Australia)


Factor in that Adelaide home to me also. This almost inexplicable psychological element is a strange but common one - most easily seen in loyalty to footy clubsI think.

[urban]

All cities are constantly changing and evolving. The views on this site are about the city changing and evolving into what we believe would be an improvement. Unfortunately throughout the 90's change was mostly limited to decay.

[Ho Really]

Come on Cruise, you know as well as anyone on here that it isnt as easy as packing everything up leaving the next day and moving interstate or overseas. Let me enlighten you a little from someone who is about to leave for London this year.
As you have said, I am one of those people who think that Adelaide is a great place to live, and fairly regularly stick up for it when everyone of my friends is bagging it, but at the same time this city frustrates me so much.

I know, like probably everyone on this site that Adelaide has the potential to become the best and most liveable city in Australia. However in the words of Hippodamus I want it to grow up and change. I think I am guilty of wanting Adelaide to become more like Melbourne or Sydney, however with a character of its own. All I hear from 95% of my friends (well at least those that still live in Adelaide and dont live in Melb, Syd, London etc) is how much they hate Adelaide and how they cant wait live, however all say they are keen on moving back here when they are ready to settle down and start a family.

The reasoning for this distaste towards the city (im only talking from personal experience here within the group of people that I know) is largely due to the lack of activity in the city, lack of job prospects and the view that nothing happens here. Lets face it the majority of 20 y.o (well at least that I know) want great career prospects (which lets face it is much more accessible in the eastern states), a bustling nightlife and weekday activity. To clarify this further, because I know someone will argue with me on this, Adelaide is completely dead Sunday to Thursday night. I work 50 hour weeks and there is nothing more I enjoy than going out after work for beers at a bar, rundle st etc in a bustling atmosphere. But with the exception of the fringe, Adelaide is dead the rest of the year, to the point where about the only thing I can think of, of doing on a weeknight is watching a movie or playing pool. A friday/saturday night isnt much better. I am a relatively fashionable person who loves classy bars/clubs where I can get dressed up and enjoy my vodka fresh lime and blackcurrant juice, but lets face it where can I do that in Adelaide? Every where I go I see fights, and people so drunk they are are throwing up or just being complete and utter dickheads.
Now im not saying that this doesn't happen in other places, but every time I go interstate I tend to avoid these crowds, whereas in Adelaide you simply have to deal with this.

Again I agree with Hippodamus when he says that NIMBYS exist everywhere, but why is it they have so much influnce here? For some reason things just get done in other places. Here NIMBYS have such an influence that it takes 200 reports and 5 years before the government even begins to consider doing something.

So to come back to your original point Cruise, I am leaving the state and moving to London. Why? Firstly, within the next few years none of my good friends will be living in Adelaide anymore, as most have already moved, with the rest plannig to leave soon. Secondly I want to experience big city living, which I cant get in Adelaide (might not be for everyone, but I am a big city person). Thirdly I want to travel Europe and have the option to be able to go out during the week, because watching movies everynight after work aint my idea of fun. Fourthly I want to go and earn more than double of what I am now, and gain overseas experience.

As I said I know Adelaide has the potential, but I dont want to spend 'my best years' waiting for this potential to be realised. This probably sounds selfish, but there is so much out there that I want to see and do that unfortunately I wont be able to experience if I stay in Adelaide my whole life, even though I know I will miss Adelaide, and eventually move back here one day.

Dont know if that flows very well, but hope thats a detailed enough response for you. You can critisice me all you want but this is all my opinion, and what I have experienced in my circle of friends...

Here’s a short opinion from someone who is at least double your age.

I agree about Adelaide having ‘some’ faults. Our city is not perfect, but you can say that about most cities around the world comparable to Adelaide or bigger. Our faults are not terminal, they can be fixed. It’s you guys that have to fix them. Don’t just rely on others who are already established to give you jobs. Create your own, be entrepreneurial. The same goes with entertainment and leisure. If no one else is doing it, you do it. Why always blame, take initiative. Adelaide (and SA) has the right business climate for anyone interested in making it a go. You guys are the future of this state, so (get together) roll up your sleeves and make it happen.

Regarding NIMBYs, keep things in perspective. You’ll probably become a NIMBY at some stage when it directly affects you. Life is not perfect. So let’s judge developments separately (and in context) and not make blanket judgments.

If your heart is into earning a lot of money and travelling (especially seeing Europe from your backdoor) then Adelaide (and Australia) is not the place for you. Come back when you are ready to set up family and make sure you bring your money too!

Cheers

[Matt]

I concur with everything Snorkie said. (even the moving to London part... I'm going in March 09)

For me personally... Adelaide doesn't do it for me, for pretty much the same reasons as he mentioned (in great detail I might add).

I want to live in a city with atmosphere, excitement (a soul?) and unfortunately, to me, Adelaide aint it.

As it stands, I loathe being here. When I go interstate, I dread coming home. At the moment, I find Adelaide a miserable place to be. Perhaps I'm just a miserable person? - but I can count at least 30 (and that is no exaggeration) friends that have moved interstate or overseas because they share my opinion. Great for free accomodation.

"If you don't like it, move!" - "If it aint broke, why fix it?" - this is the sort of attitude some Adelaideans have that I detest.
There seems to be an attitude here that second best is good enough, instead of striving for the best outcomes possible.

I'm on this forum because I'm interested in development, and want to see Adelaide improve as a city, and more importantly, as a destination. I'm waiting for some thought provoking, world class buildings, open spaces, attractions, whatever, to set Adelaide apart from the rest and give us some sort of sense of identity as a city, and something to be proud of.

As Snorkie said, there is very little to do here for the majority of the year, and very little here that is iconic, original or unique to Adelaide itself. (Yes, we have parklands...). What we have, you can generally find elsewhere, and in most cases, done better.

Yeah, we have great wine, yeah we have great festivals, but what does Adelaide (the city itself) have to attract visitors and residents? Not a great deal.

I'd love to see Adelaide become a thriving city that people my age (mid twenties) are proud of, as opposed to embarrassed by. Yeah, part of this is merely attitude which can be hard to shake, and I guess with the influx of city residents with the masses of apartments going up will help, but at this stage, I don't have 10 years to spare to wait around.

I don't want a second Sydney or Melbourne, I just want to see Adelaide meet its potential, and start to see some brave/controversial decisions being made regarding planning and development.

That was my rant for today, anyway.

[cruel_world00]

I concur with everything Snorkie said. (even the moving to London part... I'm going in March 09)

For me personally... Adelaide doesn't do it for me, for pretty much the same reasons as he mentioned (in great detail I might add).

I want to live in a city with atmosphere, excitement (a soul?) and unfortunately, to me, Adelaide aint it.

As it stands, I loathe being here. When I go interstate, I dread coming home. At the moment, I find Adelaide a miserable place to be. Perhaps I'm just a miserable person? - but I can count at least 30 (and that is no exaggeration) friends that have moved interstate or overseas because they share my opinion. Great for free accomodation.

"If you don't like it, move!" - "If it aint broke, why fix it?" - this is the sort of attitude some Adelaideans have that I detest.
There seems to be an attitude here that second best is good enough, instead of striving for the best outcomes possible.

I'm on this forum because I'm interested in development, and want to see Adelaide improve as a city, and more importantly, as a destination. I'm waiting for some thought provoking, world class buildings, open spaces, attractions, whatever, to set Adelaide apart from the rest and give us some sort of sense of identity as a city, and something to be proud of.

As Snorkie said, there is very little to do here for the majority of the year, and very little here that is iconic, original or unique to Adelaide itself. (Yes, we have parklands...). What we have, you can generally find elsewhere, and in most cases, done better.

Yeah, we have great wine, yeah we have great festivals, but what does Adelaide (the city itself) have to attract visitors and residents? Not a great deal.

I'd love to see Adelaide become a thriving city that people my age (mid twenties) are proud of, as opposed to embarrassed by. Yeah, part of this is merely attitude which can be hard to shake, and I guess with the influx of city residents with the masses of apartments going up will help, but at this stage, I don't have 10 years to spare to wait around.

I don't want a second Sydney or Melbourne, I just want to see Adelaide meet its potential, and start to see some brave/controversial decisions being made regarding planning and development.

That was my rant for today, anyway.

Thanks for your story/opinion. What I would say to you is, how can you want all this for Adelaide yet you're doing the very thing that is only going to perpetuate the cycle.

I've never really understood the hang up with Adelaide. Yes, the city frustrates me (a lot actually) but I reckon if you moved anywhere in the world to live and actually live, like with the intention of never coming back, you would also get frustrated at times. Adelaide is no different in that regards. We have to make this city a better place and by leaving it, you really aren't helping the cause.

I plan on going overseas at the end of this year for a long trip (long by my standards, like 9 months or so, keeping it open ended) but I'm only doing it not because I loathe/hate Adelaide, not because I think there are better places out there, more because I want a change of scenery and environment for a little while. I am over the monotony of my life at the moment, but I'm not hanging that all on the city of Adelaide.

I think that people who knock Adelaide don't know how to have fun or how to find it. There is enough in this city to do to keep you occupied. Cities like Melbourne and Sydney have more based on population but they aren't ALWAYS alive. I caught the wrong tram a little way out of the CBD in Melbourne one night, got off and the streets were dead. It's not just an Adelaide occurrence.

I love Melbourne and could easily live there, but I also love Adelaide. Realistically, if I can find a decent job in one of those places that allows me freedom to travel, I would take it in a heartbeat and it wouldn't really bother me. But I don't sit here pining for Melbourne or being depressed because of Adelaide.

I guess I'm saying you can't have your cake and eat it too or if you end up getting your (adelaide-leavers in general, not just snorkie etc) way, it's a pretty selfish way of going about it. You sit here complaining about the city and wanting it better, in the mean time you leave it for greener pastures and then you'll probably knock it if it hasn't changed or move back and experience the good fortunes that have only come about by people with persistence, creativity etc. once it has.

[Snorkie]

^^^^ Cruel World I agree with everything you said in your post, and as I said I am leaving Adelaide for selfish reasons, pure and simple. But having said that, dont make me out to be a bad guy, because belive me im not the first one who has done so.
Unfortunatelly people in general are selfish beings (generalising here), and people will always want more than what they currently have. I am sure plenty of young people leave Melb and Syd as well to look for 'greener pastures', however those cities also have enough going for them to attract as many if not more young people than what leave the city, which Adelaide is struggling to do.

Ho Really, I completely understand where you are coming from, and agree with you 100%. If it was as easy as saying I want to become entrepreneurial and start a business etc today, belive me I would. I dont want to use the excuse of Im just one person, what difference can I make? but unfortunatelly I dont have the patience to wait till im 40 or 50 for Adelaide to become what I would like it to become. Unfortunatelly Adelaide just does not offer me what I want at this point in my life. Im sure though that in the future it will however, so as you said I will bring back my hard earned money, but also my life experience that I dont belive I could get here.

I know this is probably of little consellation, but being someone who was born in Eastern Europe I think that its a real shot in the arm that Adelaide does give young people the opportunity to be be able to get out there and experience the world, because lets face it if you live in 75% of the rest of the world these opportunities would not be available to us. My 2c.