Sensational-Adelaide.com

My view is that free PT might increase ridership among existing users but wouldn't do much to expand patronage and certainly wouldn't improve services in a way that would attract more people. Indeed, service quality would likely decrease due to forgone revenue and increased costs. Equity issues can be better met through the fare structure. I'd rather the money forgone by making PT free be invested into increasing frequency and convenience.

SRW wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 7:04 pm

My view is that free PT might increase ridership among existing users but wouldn't do much to expand patronage and certainly wouldn't improve services in a way that would attract more people. Indeed, service quality would likely decrease due to forgone revenue and increased costs. Equity issues can be better met through the fare structure. I'd rather the money forgone by making PT free be invested into increasing frequency and convenience.

If we accept that Public Transport is not operated on a full cost recovery basis, then the actual per-ride cost (including free) is only a decision of how much it is subsidised by and how that subsidy is distributed.

What we need is better data collection - full end-to-end trip data for passengers, and ideally (but probably uncollectable) information on trip end points and times of people who currently do not use public transport because it does not meet their needs - routes not serviced at the right time, cross-suburban travel that takes multiple time to navigate the current system, etc.

so vagrants can sleep on trains

this will only accelerate our decline

Not this again. "Free" PT isn't actually Free, is it, because somebody (the taxpayer) still has to pay for it.

While it's a pretty blunt stick to use, charging for PT use is one of the few levers available to balance supply and demand, especially during peak periods where there's a limit to the number of buses, trams and trains that can realistically get people to where they want to go. Outside of peak there might be a stronger case, and in Adelaide we already have off peak fares. This fare structure means a seat on a bus in the peak is more likely used by someone that needs it - perhaps a hospital worker commuting, or a student, as opposed to an old lady just that just feels like an outing.

We already have heavily subsidised travel for those that need it - think pensioner cards, student fares, centrelink support etc. In Adelaide perhaps we could reconsider distance-based fares, so that people only travelling a few kilometres pay a discounted fare. Personally I think this would do a lot to move people out of cars and onto PT, as for shorter trips there's currently very little incentive to take PT (and that includes people in the inner suburbs getting to the CBD, which results in even more traffic on the roads closest to the city).

Saltwater wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2024 9:34 am

Not this again. "Free" PT isn't actually Free, is it, because somebody (the taxpayer) still has to pay for it.

While it's a pretty blunt stick to use, charging for PT use is one of the few levers available to balance supply and demand, especially during peak periods where there's a limit to the number of buses, trams and trains that can realistically get people to where they want to go. Outside of peak there might be a stronger case, and in Adelaide we already have off peak fares. This fare structure means a seat on a bus in the peak is more likely used by someone that needs it - perhaps a hospital worker commuting, or a student, as opposed to an old lady just that just feels like an outing.

We already have heavily subsidised travel for those that need it - think pensioner cards, student fares, centrelink support etc. In Adelaide perhaps we could reconsider distance-based fares, so that people only travelling a few kilometres pay a discounted fare. Personally I think this would do a lot to move people out of cars and onto PT, as for shorter trips there's currently very little incentive to take PT (and that includes people in the inner suburbs getting to the CBD, which results in even more traffic on the roads closest to the city).

I came here to say this as well. Updated zones or introducing tap-off would benefit.

It should not cost the same to go from Gawler to Seaford as Bowden to the CBD.

I'm also not too worried about effects/impacts/consequences of making PT wholly free. Ideally, it SHOULD be free. A free service would certainly increase patronage, and money not recouped through fares would be recouped in other ways: more disposable income etc.

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 12:23 am

Saltwater wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2024 9:34 am

Not this again. "Free" PT isn't actually Free, is it, because somebody (the taxpayer) still has to pay for it.

While it's a pretty blunt stick to use, charging for PT use is one of the few levers available to balance supply and demand, especially during peak periods where there's a limit to the number of buses, trams and trains that can realistically get people to where they want to go. Outside of peak there might be a stronger case, and in Adelaide we already have off peak fares. This fare structure means a seat on a bus in the peak is more likely used by someone that needs it - perhaps a hospital worker commuting, or a student, as opposed to an old lady just that just feels like an outing.

We already have heavily subsidised travel for those that need it - think pensioner cards, student fares, centrelink support etc. In Adelaide perhaps we could reconsider distance-based fares, so that people only travelling a few kilometres pay a discounted fare. Personally I think this would do a lot to move people out of cars and onto PT, as for shorter trips there's currently very little incentive to take PT (and that includes people in the inner suburbs getting to the CBD, which results in even more traffic on the roads closest to the city).

I came here to say this as well. Updated zones or introducing tap-off would benefit.

It should not cost the same to go from Gawler to Seaford as Bowden to the CBD.

I'm also not too worried about effects/impacts/consequences of making PT wholly free. Ideally, it SHOULD be free. A free service would certainly increase patronage, and money not recouped through fares would be recouped in other ways: more disposable income etc.

really?

Free to those who don't pay any TAX

eKwatee wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 12:40 pm

Free to those who don't pay any TAX

Anyone who purchases anything pays tax via the GST.

as I said before, you'll get homeless people riding around on it all day and night

just like public libraries where they're allowed to sleep in all day and throw their food & trash all over the floor... no matter about hygiene...that's all gone out the window for 'social justice'

QLD is running a trial for a few months of making all public transport trips 50c. Will be interesting to see what data we get from the experiment.

abc wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 4:43 pm

as I said before, you'll get homeless people riding around on it all day and night

just like public libraries where they're allowed to sleep in all day and throw their food & trash all over the floor... no matter about hygiene...that's all gone out the window for 'social justice'

You have a false equivalence of homeless and antisocial.

Besides that, what stops homeless people (or railfans) getting on the first train in the morning (paying one fare if applicable) and staying there all day? Is there more than just a lack of onboard toilets and food services?

SBD wrote: ↑

Tue May 28, 2024 11:52 am

abc wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 4:43 pm

as I said before, you'll get homeless people riding around on it all day and night

just like public libraries where they're allowed to sleep in all day and throw their food & trash all over the floor... no matter about hygiene...that's all gone out the window for 'social justice'

You have a false equivalence of homeless and antisocial.

Besides that, what stops homeless people (or railfans) getting on the first train in the morning (paying one fare if applicable) and staying there all day? Is there more than just a lack of onboard toilets and food services?

the paying part

there's no false equivalence, it happens

eKwatee wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 12:40 pm

Free to those who don't pay any TAX

Pretty sure Gina Rinehart and her ilk don't catch public transport anyway ...

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Sat May 25, 2024 12:23 am

money not recouped through fares would be recouped in other ways: more disposable income etc.

Wouldn’t the taxpayer also save by no longer having to cover the cost of maintaining a ticketing system, cost of covering enforcement of tickets etc?